Supplement to SH Survey: What should Ubi do to make SH5 the best?
 

Please note any comments, ideas, suggestions, and observations you would like to make about SH5; what would make it great, what mistakes from SH3/SH4 not to repeat, etc.

NOTE: Post your thoughts and opinions, do not comment on other member's posts in this thread. Flaming not allowed.

Thanks :yeah:
Neal

1. Complete TDC functionality
2. Radar/Sonar completely functional and separate.
3. Crew is not attached to substructure meaning getting DC'd they are hurt as a result because the are in the cannon crew slots.
4. Better AI reaction and smarter! (includes aircraft)
5. Refer to number 1
6. Fuel consumption moddable
7. More variety of ships.
8. Playable surface ships(escorts) with fully control of your other escort vessels and weapons. Obviously smart AI subs to hunt me!
9. Fleet boats have 4 independent engines.
10. Each prop is independantly controlled.
11. Control planes controllable other that full up or down.
12. Some type of trim interface when submerging.
13. Radar picks up land masses and weather.


Obviously these areas of concern are from SH4.


:D

Cool. Here's my 2p:

1. A DYNAMIC CAMPAIGN (like in SH3) is essential for me. There's no way I'd buy a modern subsim if it only consisted of a bunch of scripted missions.
1. No I didn't screw up my numbering! This is jointly in first place for me: NO BUGS. Or at least very few bugs and no critical ones. Big bugs ruin even the best of games.
3. Personally I think German subs in the ATO make for a good game because the war got more and more difficult for them, and a good video game should do likewise, so in the ATO you don't have to sacrifice that aspect of realism for gameplay.
4. Speaking of realism, I'm all for it!
5. AI. Nuff said.

Make SH5 better than its predecessors?

1) Add all the functionality of SH3 Commander - ship names, billions of possible crew names so you don't get repeats, easy ability to adjust game parameters.

2) Ease of modding. SH3 was a huge step in the right direction. SH4 is even better. Both theaters do not have to be complete; just make it easy for follow-ons to be added. Harbor pieces easy to move and change, terrain editing, things like that.

Here goes.

1: I'm with Steve on this one: SH3Commander functionality, including start dates, crew names, realistic crew transfers, the Officers Club and realistic career lengths. I would even like to see the little round up of our characters life like SH3C had. I really liked that.

2: Crew mangement. Expanded over sh4 which was a marked improvement over sh3. I would like realistic crew tranfers (as stated above,) experience gains that seem to actually matter, reaction times imrpoved through training etc. I want to feel like a u-boat skipper and that meens looking after and getting the best out of my crew. I'd also like a weapons officer who is less accurate. Perhaps have the accuracy increase the longer he is observing a target?

3: Realism in every field, from the spotting ability of aircraft to DD attack patterns to ships running zig zag. I would also like to see a realism increase to systems management so we can do things like run the electric engines on the surface, control how many engines we are running, trim up or down and allow us to run decks awash (with the possible drop in how easy we are to spot etc,) Also, improvements to Sonar, Radar would be good.

4: Damage and repair. Please, realisitic repair times and damage. No more repairing a bulkhead in 10 seconds, or instant death when diving too deep. Also, I would like random system breakdowns to things like engines, just to add to the flavour.

5: Dynamic campaign. Cannot have a Silent Hunter game without it. The two most important additions to me are Wolf Packs and other subs - both allied and axis.

Cheers.

As I answered in the survey: mod-ability as most important feature.

Anyway, I would like to see both theaters again, and this time with all boats involved.
This means real narwhals for us campaign
This means all German uboats and not only one (plus fantasy).
And why not also British, Japanese, Russian and Italian subs?

I'll surely come up with more later and edit...

In no order.

- More ship classes big and small merchant and warship.
- Historicity accurate harbours and bases.
- SH3 Commander built in.
- Large dynamic campaign taking in all theatres of the uboat war.
- Wolf packs and Milk cows

First of all, (even I'm certain that they weren't made by lack of knowledge but for the pressure of releasing the product), please don't make the same mistakes present in sh4, for example:

• KM grid, there are remnants of the sh3 grid in sh4, which interferes with the new grid system.
• 3d Objects can't be clicked on the exterior views (uzo, crew) even when they should.
• state machine controller not working as expected (i.e.: in port they should be making random animations as stated in the commands set in the dat files, but instead they're scanning with the binoculars).
• These are a few of the programming problems I found.

Now for new features:

• Better AI (terrain/objects avoid routines, etc.).
• Wolfpacks, not so hard, the basic idea is included in sh4 with the reinforcements/scout routines.
• AI Torpedoes , a must both for wolfpacks and AI ships.
• More than two compartments recognized for the interiors, so we can optimize the work of Tomi and DD.
• Last, but the most important in my point of view is the release of documentation of the format of the files, even when most of it has been deciphered by the community, some parts remain unknown.

Ref

1: Interact with High Command, with other subs, with planes, with neutral and enemy ships, radio traffic, ...

2: Better weather management.

3: All said before in this thread.

Oh and I almost forgot!
It'd be nice if the world was round in SH5. :yep:
I mean a real sphere, both in terms of navigation and in terms of graphics (SH3 - and I presume SH4 - have a flat square world and the ocean is rendered in such a way that it curves upwards which I think is meant to simulate the earths curvature but it really doesn't work).

We have complied a Wish List on our Website,
for SH5
The Silent Hunter Survey
is a great step,
on players views on the
Silent Hunter series :up:

Renown awarded for damaging ships
Ability to bombard shore targets

As per Ref....plus the ability to take a British player sub (and more nations if possible). http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...ies/pirate.gif

Continued and ongoing support for the sim past the release date. Support to be provided beyond the bug fixes that crop up as with all releases but to include additional content to be determined by the devs. So how to pay for this; simple charge us more! Yep, that is right I paid $125.00 for Steel Beast PE, I never felt it was to much to pay, and I love the support, patches, additional content and betas at no extra cost.

So either charge an above and beyond the normal price for a sim of this category to begin with and/or charge for additional value added content.

Front load the money so that you can keep devs at work fixing problem and bringing forth additional content, that was perhaps not added due to time constraints, with an additional cost attached. This is about making a profit and that we want for you and your publisher.

The amount of time I spend on SH4 in comparision to the initial cost of the software is just ridiculously cheap for the amount entertainment value I get out of the sim.

Well done gentleman and thank you for hearing our opinions and recomendations.

1)A SH5 Commander function
2)Many or most files open to modeling. This is what keeps the game alive for most of us.
3)Destroyer Command option, player chooses side against AI
4)Destroyer Command and wolf pack options for multiplayer
5)Wolf packs, milk cows: let the modelers have at it.
6)mine laying function; even better just make it possible and let the modelers go at it.

The developers will have time, money, deadline decisions; if they have to leave something out, leave the option open for our modelers to complete the work.
I don't care how many bugs there are provided they are fixable by the developers or modelers, and we can get some cooperation from the developers

More or less what the others said other then the pay more for the game idea, that would seriously kill sales, especially in this economy.

I would also like to see improved radio options and extensive radio messages, Assignments on patrol, weather reports, reports from other subs on their success.

Anything else that would increase immersion, like my character actually being physically represented on the ship, the ability to walk around and interact. The ability to use the captains quarters, sleep in the bed, have the crew wake me if they need me (that could be time compression). Write an extensive log, have everything accessible by being able to walk over and click it.

I also wouldn't mind having the pacific and atlantic together, but that may not be possible. I don't really want playable the subs of nations that didn't do a whole lot with them, as that's just a waste of dev time. A couple of human pilotable destroyers for multiplayer probably wouldn't go amiss either, but shouldn't be a focus (this is a sub sim).

Oh and better weather, more realistic, and realy nasty storms.

Almost forgot, a proper weapons officer, that is neither perfect, nor gives instant calculations. I would love to be able to call out (or have him set) the tdc based on my settings for example. Voice recognition would be great too.

Here's my take:

0. Bugs. Keep the patches comming if there are still obvious gameplay bugs present. Crash-free doesn't mean it works ok. Go the extra mile to create quality.

1. Accurate physics: Curved earth and propper rendering of it (over the horizon visuals/radar), propper newtonian mechanics(inertia and collision effects), Euler-rotational dynamics, speed of sound delays of explosions, flooding based damage/sinking, diving with user controlled-trimming/ballast (maybe realism option). Full speedrange propellor-RPM vs. screwnoise modelling. Thermal-layer simulation even if it wasn't discovered yet at the time.

2. Better technology modeling and user interface:Manual targeting as was performed, like split-prism optics AS the Germans used it (Range and AOB measurement combined). Gyrocompass synchronised Fixed-Line-Through-Space in periscope. Accurate clock readout/timezone and stopwatch use in every screen. Sextant for celestial navigation, true sun/moon/stars and planets. Keep the map and drawing tools as-is (made SH3 a winner for me), but don't forget editable text-fields in marks! War-diary/captain's log.

3. Built-in randomness in i.e. range reports from crew/sensors, based on crew fitness/experience/AI. Better yet, make the variability modable, as accurate readings are a good thing during testing! A helmsman that keeps his course.

4. Keep the Sh3 campaign type. But with Wolvepacks (AI). Make land objects just as real as scripted or random layer.

Note: nothing to add in the graphics department. Good enough, and the above is more important for immersion.

I could post a very lengthy list, but these are the most important issues to me:

• Crew members that are transferred off the boat after each patrol. This should be especially true for crewmen who have accrued a good amount of experience.
• When the player takes command of a new submarine, it should also come with a new crew (unlike the current situation, where the crew follows the player from sub to sub like a little puppy dog :doh:).
• A proper watch system for each side. While the 3-watch system works just fine for American subs, it's not how it worked for the Germans, who used a two-watch system.
• More strict requirements for moving externally-stowed torpedoes below decks. This includes factors like how rough the sea is and severe penalties for trying to dive while moving a torpedo below decks (such as loss of the torpedo and the handling gear needed to move the torpedo).
• Have the campaign track whether a major warship has been sunk or not. If I sink a Yamato class BB, then the game should remove one of these ships from the "roster," never to be seen again. As a consequence, the campaign engine should compensate accordingly when the ship is due to be generated later in the campaign (e.g., if a convoy calls for two Yamato class BBs, and one has already been sunk, then only one will be generated.
• Better evasive maneuvers for lone merchant ships. The current constant-helming routine is very lacking and too predictable.
• Historically correct depth charge settings.
• Proper reporting procedures for radar contacts. "Single contact?" What is it, a ship or an airplane? Is it moving towards us? Moving away? Also, if the radar is a non-directional type (like SD radar) don't report a bearing!
• More commands for the sonarman. The player should be able to select any contact picked up by sonar and order the sonarman to follow it. The nearest merchant/warship contact isn't always the one the player wants to track.
• Similar to the above, but as it relates to the bridge watch: I should be able to select any given ship and ask what the range to it is.
• Ready ammo for the deck gun.
• A deck gun scope that bobs up and down and isn't gyro-stabilized like it is now.
• Reports from the bridge as to when the weather is worsening or improving.
• More authentic damage reports from the crew. Seriously, how does my diving officer know our deck gun has been damaged when we're 250 feet below the surface? Deck mounted items (guns, radar antennas, radar detectors), simply put, should only be reported as damaged when the boat is on the surface.
• Aircraft that fly and attack like ASW aircraft should, not radio-controlled planes just buzzing around waiting to be shot down.
• A ship damage model that doesn't rely on a simple hit-point system but one that depends on torpedo placement and location of damage.

What I would really like is for things to work! My biggest gripes with SH3 (after installing GWX, which addressed most of my complaints, and is how the game should have shipped from the factory) are bugs that never got fixed. I want to be able to save without being surfaced and without being in the middle of nowhere. I can't count how many times I've spotted a ship or been getting DC'd and had to stop playing for one reason or another. My only option is to pause the game and leave my computer running until I can come back to the game. I don't want the game to crash when I click on a button that's meant to be clicked. That sort of thing.

A three-shift crew rotation would be great. I've heard that SH4 improves over SH3 in crew management, but that it still doesn't work quite right. Right now I play with fatigue turned off because it's such a huge hassle.

Better crew management and performance would also be really great. I'd like to see my crews performance increase as their experience increases. It would also be nice if I could see that bootsman so-and-so has an aptitude with the diesels (making me want to give him mechanics qualification next time we're in port) or that Klaus from Hamburg has a great ear and would make a good hydrophone man.

More free-roaming would be a bonus. Little things like going up to the bridge or climbing down the ladder before a dive would be great eye candy. The instantaneous "popping" from bridge to command room reduces my immersion.

I'm not sure if I would personally use it or not, but I think it would be cool to model currents and have a "real navigation" option, where you actually have to use dead reckoning and shoot stars to find your position. How cool would it be to have to fight the current coming through the straight of Gibraltar (or being able to drift on it if going east)? Obviously, the head of the boat shouldn't have to handle the minutae of navigation, but the navigator also shouldn't know *exactly* where the ship is if there are no landmarks and we haven't seen the stars in a week.

Speaking of that...the absolute precision of other crew members should be dumbed down a bit too. Maybe my exec can't identify every single ship, or maybe he even identifies them incorrectly. Maybe the watch officer thinks that ship to starboard is about 5000 meters away rather than knowing that it's exactly 4725 meters away.

I would love to see mechanical failures and breakdowns, especially later in the war. Some U-boat histories have vessels setting sail and returning a day or two later for repairs multiple times in a row. This would be neat to simulate. Kiel didn't have enough parts to overhaul the diesels this time...plan for trouble!

I would really like to hear when/if a ship sends off a distress signal after I torpedo it. Not only would it add to immersion, but it would give me the name of the ship for my patrol log. Similarly, it would be awesome if the radio messages were more interactive. Perhaps when another U-boat is sunk I might get dispatched to look for survivors. Maybe I even get sent to pick up a downed pilot.

Lastly, all of these things need to be able to be turned on or off by the user. This will allow SH5 to cater to the hard-core simmers while also allowing armchair kaluens to play a light, fun sub game without getting killed on their first patrol.

1st a round world....

2nd as lukeFF said, Realistic tracking of sinking of historical ships and their sinkings, not just when player sinks them but also appearance dates based one historical data... this could also go for the names of sunk mechants to some extent (generated names only available after they were used, especially important for Liberty ships and others built during the war)

2nd (again) the more historical accuracy the better

3rd (or possibly first) better weather, I didn't feel sh4's weather was an improvement at all

just my 2 cents :salute: