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Why Atheism Is Morally Bankrupt - A thought since we are celebrating Christs birth...

I'm just waiting for the Atheist rebuttal on this one! :D

-S

Quote:

If you walk around Washington, D.C., on a regular basis, youre likely to see some rather peculiar posters. But you wont see any more peculiar than the ads put out by the American Humanist Association. Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness sake, say the signs, in Christmas-colored red and green.

Sounds great, doesnt it? Just be good for goodness sake. You dont need some Big Man in the Sky telling you what to do. You can be a wonderful person simply by doing the right thing.

Theres only one problem: without God, there can be no moral choice. Without God, there is no capacity for free will.

Thats because a Godless world is a soulless world. Virtually all faiths hold that God endows human beings with the unique ability to choose their actions -- the ability to transcend biology and environment in order to do good. Transcending biology and our environment requires a higher power -- a spark of the supernatural. As philosopher Rene Descartes, put it, Although I possess a body with which I am very intimately conjoined [my soul] is entirely and absolutely distinct from my body and can exist without it.

Gilbert Pyle, the atheistic philosopher, derogatorily labeled the idea of soul/body dualism, the ghost in the machine. Nonetheless, our entire legal and moral system is based on the ghost in the machine -- the presupposition that we can choose to do otherwise. We can only condemn or praise individuals if they are responsible for their actions. We dont jail squirrels for garden theft or dogs for assaulting cats -- they arent responsible for their actions. But we routinely lock up kleptomaniacs and violent felons.

Its not only our criminal justice system that presupposes a Creator. Its our entire notion of freedom and equality. We hold these truths to be self-evident, wrote Thomas Jefferson, supposed atheist, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Human equality must spring from a Creator, because the presence of a soul is all that makes man human and equal. Biology suggests inherent inequality -- who would call Arnold Schwarzenegger and Stephen Hawking equal in any way? Biology suggests the sort of Hegelian social Darwinism embraced by totalitarian dictators, not the principles of equality articulated by the Founding Fathers.

Without a soul, freedom too is impossible -- we are all slaves to our biology. According to atheists, human beings are intensely complex machines. Our actions are determined by our genetics and our environment. According to atheists, if we could somehow determine all the constituent material parts of the universe, we would be able to predict all human action, down to the exact moment at which Vice President-elect Joe Biden will pick his nose. Freedom is generically defined as the power to determine action without restraint (Random House). But if action without restraint is impossible, how can we fight for freedom?

If there is no God, there is no freedom to choose. If there is no freedom to choose, there is no good or evil. There is merely action and inaction. There is no way to be good for goodness sake -- that would require an act of voluntary will far beyond human capacity.

Atheists simply gloss over this point. The American Humanist Association states on its website, whybelieveinagod.org, We can have ethics and values based on our built-in drives toward a moral life. Without a soul, this is wishful thinking of the highest order. Since when does biology dictate a moral drive? If it did, wouldnt man always get more rather than less moral -- wouldnt history be a long upward climb? What about the murderers, rapists, child molesters and genocidal dictators? Are they all ignoring that built-in drive toward a moral life?

Atheism may work for individuals. There are moral atheists and there are immoral religious people. But as a system of thought, atheism cannot be the basis for any functional state. If we wish to protect freedom and equality, we must understand the value of recognizing God. We must recognize the flame of divinity -- free will -- He implanted within each of us.http://townhall.com/columnists/BenSh...rally_bankrupt

Well, this is just a complete bunch of nonsense. (Suuuupriiiise!)

Quote:

Theres only one problem: without God, there can be no moral choice. Without God, there is no capacity for free will.

Thats because a Godless world is a soulless world.

This only makes sense if you believe in God. Therefore, the article, and it's author are those who appear bankrupt. Any questions?

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If we wish to protect freedom and equality, we must understand the value of recognizing God.

:rotfl:That's just rich....

About the author - (bold mine)

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Shapiro has taken conservative stances on many social issues. He favors stronger military and law enforcement spending, as well as more restrictive laws against abortion, pornography and "seditious" speech protesting U.S. war efforts.

This guy has the balls to speak of freedom when he wants to restrict free speech?

NEXT!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma

Well, this is just a complete bunch of nonsense. (Suuuupriiiise!)

Quote:

Theres only one problem: without God, there can be no moral choice. Without God, there is no capacity for free will.

Thats because a Godless world is a soulless world.

This only makes sense if you believe in God. Therefore, the article, and it's author are those who appear bankrupt. Any questions?

Yes.

Where do you keep the beer?:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

http://www.jewishjournal.com/images/...sty-762336.jpg

:rotfl:

What a load of complete horsesh*t.
The entire article is nothing more than projection, assertion and a few strawmen, to write a well worded rebutal would be nothing more than a waste of time, I'll concider doing so when I wake up tomorrow morning, but dont hold your breath.

God's a sissy Jesus too,
Subman's posts are total poo.

Yaay, I'm a poet! :rock:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

God's a sissy Jesus too,
Subman's posts are total poo.

Yaay, I'm a poet! :rock:

Bad poetry, oh noetry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

God's a sissy Jesus too,
Subman's posts are total poo.

Yaay, I'm a poet! :rock:

:rotfl:I think ill put that in a poem book.:rotfl:

Quote:

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

God's a sissy Jesus too,
Subman's posts are total poo.

Yaay, I'm a poet! :rock:

Bad poetry, oh noetry

Got that tshirt. :rock:

I knew there had to be someone here that got it!:up: :rock: :up:

Causing a firestorm. Of course no one has been able to refute the points of the article, but I must admit, its entertaining to watch you scuffle! :up:

-S

There is a God! I know because the Messiah was just elected. Also, CNN said so. :p Merry Christmas all.

Firstly, i do believe in God and the idea of a "Supreme being" who designed the Universe and everything in it.

There is far too much order in nature for me to believe otherwise.

About religion i will say this...

I grew up being raised as a Methodist, who eventually was sent to a catholic school as it was the only reliable private school in the area and all of my friends and neighbors were baptist so i spent a fair amount of time going to church with them.

I have concluded that not one religion on earth has it all the way right.

Religion is man made. and thus it is flawed.

You have to look back through history and look at some of the conditions under which many religions were created... generally most religions were created for the purpose of 1. giving people hope when their may be none... and 2. giving leaders, usually religious leaders the power to control and maintain order within the general population.

this is prevalent in every single society on earth. whether you worship the sun, the moon, God, Allah, a golden beaver whatever

think of this...

when you were a kid your mom and dad held it over your head all year "You better be good, because santa clause is watching you and he knows when you have been bad and wont bring you anything but a lump of coal if you dont behave and do what i say"

In adulthood we knew this bit about santa clause was total Bull crap.

however... we were being watched by someone who was in charge of whether or not we received any good gifts for christmas.

and our parents loved us... even if we were pretty bad most of the year (bad grades, pulled sisters hair, kicked the dog etc) mom and dad still got us some pretty decent gifts.

never once in all of my rotten youth did i receive any coal.

religion is the same concept... only applied to grown ups and the general polulace.

"dont do bad things or you go to hell" is the main idea

my personal religious belief is that there is a heaven and a hell.

Generally speaking, most people are good, and only God and YOU know what is inside your heart and soul. only God and YOU know when you are truly repentant and worthy of heaven.

most people... even though they have done some shady things in life... still get to go to heaven.

some people... who have done some pretty dispicable things still go to heaven, only they have some sort of purpose to fulfill in the after life... like a job of sorts which they must do for X amount of time.

Hell on the other hand... complete and total separation from all hope. a place of unimaginable disparity and torment is reserved for those persons who are beyond repentance. The Serial Killers, murderers, Contributors to mass genocide, Call of Duty team killers etc.

it seems cheesy, but i agree with the film "What dreams may come"

ever hear the term "God is love?"

ever hear the term "Love conquers all"

if someone you love goes to hell... i believe you can go and get them out

as far as athiesm goes.

you have the right to believe as you wish.

but because one is athiest - he shouldnt go around trying to get the ten commandments removed from some court house in Dirty crevace, Alabama because of it.

I also feel like some sort of fundamental beliefe in a supreme being is a core requirment for admitance into heaven.

Thing is Subman, that kind of crock of ignorant sh!t doesn't encourage any thought out reply. Your thread and that article just get what they're worth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Causing a firestorm. Of course no one has been able to refute the points of the article, but I must admit, its entertaining to watch you scuffle! :up:

-S

Unfortunately the article has no points to refute. There are no facts there - only opinion and innuendo. Enigma's first post was correct.

And I'm not even an atheist.

Look SUBMAN, there is no point in that article, it is all just baseless claims.
A diety is not required for free will, free will is just a byproduct of our ability for abstract thought which we have due to our brains having evolved the way they did.
As for morality, morals are set by a society, not a diety, and are not absolute. Hell, look back in history and you will see all kinds of diferent cultures where the morals have been different, but most share commonalities.

Now about that point in that article which claism that biology is pushing for social darwinism, that is nothing more than a strawman at best or inexcusable stupidity at worst. Inequality between humans is indeed a fact of life, but aknowleging that does not mean that humans with defects in some areas should be left to die.

As for biology seting morals, well, in some ways it does. Back in the past it has been more benefitial for the group of humans ancestors for some member of said group to sacrifice him/herself for the good of the group, thats where altruism traces it's roots. Similar behavior can be seen in other pack animals. From the verges of altruism it is not a big leap towards a more, so called moral, existance in the group because it is benefitial. You may want to take this as being selfish, which would be true to some extent, but doing something for the beterment of a group does not really count as selfishnes in my eyes, even if at the deepest biological level it is nothing more than ensuring the survival of ones genes, by some ammount, inside said group.

anyway, my entire post is a garbled mess, have fun reading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

Your post is a mess. What I get from it is that it is baseless claims without it going into whatever. Try to break it out in your next post.

If you took Biology in school, you know that Darwin was never able to answer many questions based around human nature. For one, humans should not have the capability to help out others that are of lesser fortune because this does not fit the model.

The article above does an excellent job explaining why. That is why you should attack it on a point by point basis.

-S

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Well biology has moved on now from the point darwin lived, there have been a lot thats has been discovered from that point onwards. Allso helping others does fit the model because helping others does improve the group as a whole whick increases survival chanses of the group. Empathy and altruism have not gone anywhere.