making the Seawolf silent speed of 25 knots and doubling the Kilo endurance
 

I'm trying to make the Sewaolf much more realistic with having a virtually silent speed of 25 knots. Furthermore I'm trying to double the Kilo submerged endurance. thus making it more realistic.

I'm using the DWedit utility and playing with the object.eod file.

There is an object called thruster.

For the Kilo I think I just add 1 identical thruster but one which is NOT emitting any noise at all by tinkering with the speednoise parameter value of the object thruster class.

For the Seawolf I think I'm going to tinker with the speednoise value.

However I think the bigger the number of the speednoise parameter the quiter the sub becomes.

What does this speednoise mean? I mean the Seawolf has a speed noise level of 18 while the Kilo SSK has a speed noise of 11 and the Kilo improved has a speed noise of 13.
There is also the base noise which is always set at 0 I think.

Some help on the speednoise meaning is appreciated. Thanks

I just found a weird thing.

I've made sure that the object.eod is not read only and proceeded to make the changes I wrote in the previous post.

I loaded DW with the modified object.eod and it loaded and played successfully however as I exit DW to make further adjustment to object.eod file with DWedit, the previous modifications I've made disappeared from the list. The file seemed to have returned to default state.

Anybody have any idea?

Did you save? :D

SpeedNoise in the thruster dialog represents how much additional "noise" the platform emits at top speed. For example a SpeedNoise of 10 means that at top speed the platform emits (base sound levelnoise) + 10 additional noise points. A SpeedNoise of 20 means the platform will emit (base sound level) + 20 additional noise points.

The lower the value the less additional noise at top speed the platform will exhibit.

If you want to lower the overal noise of the platform its in the "object" dialog in the valuebox Passive Sonar SL.

After you change a value in one of the dialog, be sure to press the "apply" button, or the changes will be discarded when you switch to a different platform (different than the save button).

Gosh I had to? I did click on the apply button. :)

Thanks LoBlo. Btw do you think the virtual thruster is going to work to double the Kilo endurance?

This time I saved the changes I made and now my Seawolf is virtually undetectable like it is supposed to be in RL thanks to its pump jet propulsion system. :up:. It is still detectable but at flanking speed that is in excess of 25 knots and at relatively short ranges too. I really like it this way. I don't care if it ruins the gameplay. As far as I'm concerned the Seawolf is supposed to be invisible. The ultimate underwater stealth technology. Though I'm a bit afraid that now whatever mission or campaign with the Seawolf would be all too easy since the enemy is not going to be able to detect it unless it is very very lucky. Though I'm aware there is always the probability that the Seawolf actual performance is not as superb as what they told us to be. Disinformation is commonplace and can be expected from the military though they usually dumbed down the performance of their new wonder machines.

The quietness of the Seawolf makes me wondering about the real or disclosed stealth performance of the Trafalgar which has a pump jet propulsion too like the Seawolf.
Does anyone know whether the Trafalgar is nearly as quiet as the Seawolf? :hmm:Because I intend to lower Trafalgar noise further since I expect it to be quieter than a conventional propeller equipped submarine.

I also tried playing with what I call the virtual thruster. Instead of doubling the range it actually halved it. Maybe it is not possible at all to double the endurance of the Kilo as what I've been told. :shifty:

Not likely. From what I've seen/tried, its in the hardcode of the engine itself... if anyone ever figures out the trick it would make a nice Type 212 with AIP.

I gathered that the Seawolf was marginally quieter than contemporary 688i's at slow speeds but without cavitation at higher speeds, and that's it.

How does the pump jet work sound-wise? I know what they are but I haven't a clue about the acoustics.

Well to be honest the Seawolf (in LWAMI) is perhaps slightly undermodeled, but not terribly so I imagine. You certainly can't go running around at 25 knots and expect not to be detected. It is good, and one of the best subs in the world (I would guess it is pretty much equivilent to the Virginias) but it just isn't that good.

Additionally, the pump-jet is quieter, but not silent, and has been used on other subs besides the seawolf, such as the British Trafalgar class. So in reality you probably made the sim highly unrealistic.

Yes you're right pump jet prevent cavitation. I'm still looking at which parameter to change so that the Seawolf would not be cavitating at high speed.

Right now it still cavitates at 25 knots at relatively shallow depths but it is nonetheless virtually undetectable

Well I have read somewhere that at 25 knots the Seawolf is quieter than a Los Angeles class tied at pier. In DW it is stated to have a silent speed of 25 knots. 10 times as quiet as the improved Los Angeles class submarine and 70 times as quiet as the original Los Angeles class submarine.
So I expect it to be as quiet as a 5 knots Los Angeles class when running at 25 knots. And that is extremely quiet imo.
So it must have extremely advanced stealth performance.

But again the military are also known to have exaggerated its wonder machine performance in order to win continuous funding to help justify its enormous expenses.

But I intend to further play with the parameter. Maybe I need to increase the passive noise a bit.

I realize this is all just guessing but I really think the default LWAMI Seawolf performance is really undermodeled. I don't feel confident riding the Seawolf in its default LWAMI state.

I tuned down the quietness of the Seawolf to what I feel a more realistic level after tuning it up to be virtually undetecable unless at very close ranges and high speeds. But she is still quieter than its stock LWAMI 3.08 counterpart which I feel is a bit undermodeled in terms of noise performance.

Now the Seawolf is much quieter than its LWAMI counterpart.

Here's the link to my modified object.eod based on LWAMI 3.08.
A Test scenario is included so that you may evaluate immediately the difference with the stock LWAMI Seawolf performance.

I don't consider this a mod I just want to share the file so that I may get evaluation on how the Seawolf now feels. Besides I think it is rather fun. who knows you might like it. :D. because I do.

New files and link.

http://files.filefront.com/ExtendedMod+fixedrar/;1
The old link contains faulty Kilo battery sorry

Now the entire Database files are included. Should be okay

Also the file may cause conflict in MP games if you intend to play with it permanently. I advise you to use JSGME if you like it.

War afterall is not a fair game.

Thanks to LoBlo who gave the tips on how to do it.

Be careful about comparing the seawolf to the 688, they are no doubt talking about the unimproved 688, not the 688(i). Checking the LWAMI DB (and assuming I am remembering how to do this :lol:)

....................Seawolf.........688........... 688(i)
SL@ rest...........55..............62.............58
SL@ 5knts.........57..............65.............60
SL@ 20knts.......64..............73.............68

So under LWAMI the Seawolf at 20 knots is already very close to the sound level of a 688 at 0 knots. (64 v 62) All those numbers (I believe) presume you are not cavitating.

Yes I'm aware that they were talking about the original 688. I'm using 25 knots as reference. That traveling at 25 knots the Seawolf is still running silently. And I take it to emit a noise level equivalent to that of a 5 knots travelling improved 688. as for numbers well I'm not an engineer. So I set it to a value which I think from my simple testing is appropriate. Hunches and estimate guessing did the trick.

At the current level of my modification the Seawolf is already very quiet but you can get killed in your Seawolf too as I've experienced. A torpedo dropped from the Seahawk got me :dead:.

[quote=To be] Not to mention the Russian Kilo submarine Alrosia. :rock:

BTW a pumpjet is not as efficent as a normal prop so if you had two submarines of the same class and one was outfitted with a pump jet it would be eather slower and quieter or noiser due to the higher amount of turns being put on the shaft for the same speed. Pump jets make a sub quieter but at slower speeds, they are by no means a HFRO style "Silent Drive". ;)

I always wondered what makes the Seawolve so silent. I think the big jump in silent speed should indicate a major revolution in submarine design. Is there something revolutionary in the machinery of the Seawolve? If it is realy "just" the pump-jet then it is strange that the Trafalgar is not famous for a very high silent speed aswell.

There are other factors that come into play in the noise level a submarine puts out. The electro/mechanical systems like the hydraulic system, the reactor coolant pumps, the ventilation system. Also how well these systems are designed and sound dampened so as not to transfer noise to the hull itself is a critical componant in being quiet.

The Los Angeles class is an old design though continually refitted with updated weaponry and sensors or electronics but it is an old design.

Just look at the comparative differences between the F-15 which is an old design and the new F-22 Raptor. Both are designed as air superiority fighter. But the later which is designed much later has got super cruise ability and stealth built into it. That two alone are major advancement than the F-15. The F-22 is a revolutionary plane despite its enormous cost to build

The same when I look between the Los Angeles class and the Seawolf class submarines. The Seawolf which is a new design would in most probability incorporate features that are non-existent in the old Los Angeles class. So much so that the Seawolf performance is quite revolutionary compared with the Los Angeles class just like the F-22 when compared with the F-15.

In my opinion the RL Seawolf is even quieter than the one I try to imitate through my modification. Perhaps between 2-5 point lower than it is now in my modification.

The Akula II as it is now in LWAMI is already quieter than the Improved Los Angeles class which imo is not accurate as even the noise performance of the Akula II is still lower(noiser) than the improved Los Angeles class though the difference may not be much.

Also can somebody explain to me the high tensile non-magnetic steel that the Germans use in their submarine. Will this material prevent MAD detection?

The thing that disappoint me is the inability to modify the battery capacity of any diesel-electric submarine in the game. That really sucks a lot. Perhpas Sonalysts could make not a patch but rather a battery fix that modify existing battery capaicty of all diesel-electric sub in game to a value closer to RL. Right now the Kilo submerged endurance is half that of what DW writes in the USNI entry.

I think everyone has his/her theories; I certainly have my own... completely speculative albeit.

I've heard one theory is that the Seawolf is using large and extensive raftings which is one reason the Seawolf needed to be so much larger than the 688. (2300 tons heavier).

The other thing that I haven't heard alright but suspect is that the Seawolf is probably using a natural circulating reactor which the 688 class was too small to fit (another explaination for the SW neccesarily larger size). The USNavy was using them in their super quiet SSBNs, but couldn't fit them in the 688 so a bigger, new sub was probably needed.

Those are my theories anyway. All is just guessing.