Whats the point in the XVIII?
 

Basically, I was working my ass off in the Indian Ocean, and was rewarded with a new sub, fantastic I though, happily accepted, and began looking around my new sub ...

And, honestly I was dissapointed. :down:

Problems include:

No Deck Gun

Worse AA Guns

No aft tubes

Lose my expensive upgrades on previous boat

No additional speed (Submerged or surfaced, the loss of the guns don't gain ANY speed? :doh: )

Lose expensive torpedoes from previous boat

But worst of all, the range. in my IX, I could easily get to the mission area, and make it back to a refuel point, before heading back out again. In this, despite going at low speeds, I can't even get 3/4 of way to the mission, let alone get back. And my Missions are always 'Patrol off Aden' or 'Sink 10,000 tonnes of Kenya' or 'Sink a task force before it reaches Ceylon' etc. But I can't get there! :damn:

So what am I supposed to do? Ignore the mission, or die trying to get there.

From what I've seen, the only advantage is the Walter propolsion system, which although great (28knts submerged! Wow) runs out quickly, and can hradly be used thanks to British destroyers.

About the loss of deck gun and AA, at first I thought it would be good, XXI style, ment to stay submerged, sleek fast! But no ... same old 7knts submerged.

Prehaps it dives quicker and longer ... never really though to check it out, I had NO fuel to spare.

So negatives: I have a weaker boat, with less range, impossible missions, incredibly unprotected, have to wast torpedoes on stationary ships, rubbish speed, loss of some crew and upgrades.

Compared to the positives of: A small time boost of speed, more forward tubes, from most angles its better looking then an IX ...

Right, so whats the point? Am I missing something? Whats so impressive? Is it amost impossible to detect with sonar? (Not that I'll get anywhere near the convoys, I'll be out of fuel at the Adamans) and I like my realism settings, I don't want unlimited fuel.

But why the XVIII? Why include a sub that was never deployed to the Indian, and never produced, to a U-boat that was produced, just not deployed in the Indian. Why not just give me a XXI? It makes ALOT more sense, and it would actually be worth it. :dead:

For now, I'm sticking with my IX! :x

Compared to IXD2:
+Deeper operating depth
+Faster torpedo reloading
+Six forward tubes
+More torpedos
+Walther propulsion

With this boat you are untouchable when underwater. A few minutes with "Walther" engaged will shake any DD off your tail. Too bad it's not in OpMonsun so I only used it for one patrol(iirc from Surabaya to Aden, had just enough fuel).

The point in the XVIII in SH4 is to add at least something new to a totally daft and unrealistic addon!
The moment I read the first announcement of U Boat missions I lost my faith in Ubisoft Romania.

In reality, the purpose of the XVIII was to make submerged daylight attacks on convoys with the same speed a VII had surfaced.
It was not meant to be a "true submarine", like the XXI.

Ubisoft Romania should include in UBT add-on some features lacking in base SH4 game like ST radar for example. Anyway they always lack time to finish games due to need to release them in the hot Christmas period. Therefore we still get "unfinished hits" i.e. very good games in concept but without many interesting features! :(

Yet I don't think that type XVIII sub presence is a key issue here...

:dead: So ... in SHIV its impossible, submerged is 7knts (Same as IX) so that meas only with the Walter 'on' but that just runs out quickly, and surely it would be heard?

Besides, I haven't even got enough fuel to get to the convoys! :damn:

There are good reasons the Type XVIII was killed and replaced by the similar looking Type XXI.

Hi Gigalocus :D

It seems everyone has lost the point of your post.

It's unrealistic but, included for the Arcade players.

For realism stay with your IX boat if you can.:yep:

I've run the XVIII for a couple of patrols. while not at 100% realism, I only use auto-fire control and no duds. Every other realism option for fuel, sensors, reapair and crew are all set to realistic.

By traveling at 1/3 speed surfaced, I was able to cruise to the south Australian coast, accomplish my mission and return to Singapore unharmed with some minimal fuel left. I would only go to standard, full or flank if stalking a contact. While the AA is deficient, the faster dive time along with the radar detection gives me plenty of time to ge to PD and stay undetected.

I really only use the Waterdrive to sprint below the layer or overhaul a target ahead. In both patrols, I returned with fuel left here as well.

I think the OP is absolutely lacking in the history of the german U boats.

The type XVIII is inculded as a "What if" choice.

This boat would have been a true threat if the problems with the Walter drive were worked out. (people can argue they would have been an equal threat to both side of the coin)

It is not designed to operate on the surface. In case you did not know U-boats were sitting ducks for the RAF and coastal command later in the war when they were on the surface day OR NIGHT.

I don't understand why the simulation of the Type XVIII lacks a snorkel cause it is my understanding all boats of period of the war had the device.

The type XXI is a direct decendent of the type XVIII of which two were being built, but were converted on the slips over to the Type XXI form.

I eventually grew to like this ship after spitefully turning down the original offer to hop in it. Later on, nearer the end of the war, command gave me a second chance at taking the boat. More of an ultimatum, really. It was either take the ship or it would be the end of my career; so I opted to bite the bullet and give my crew another handful of patrols.

Originally sore that there were no aft tubes nor deck gun, I actually ended up enjoying my final patrols in it quite a bit. :yep:

I miss having deck guns. I like to use them when the weather is fowl and visibility is nill. That is when I have fun taking out stuff. But the walther boat is neat too. With the extra tubes up front and the ability to move fast with the turbines engaged. I have fun decimating task forces. They just do not know what hit em. Yep! But remember to turn off the turbine or it just becomes another pokey Diesel boat.

I'm operating from Penang, and my missions are always off Africa or Aden/Iran.

I simply CANNOT get there, I've actually had to turn on Unlimited batteries :cry: just so I can get there! :damn: (Does having unlimited fuel give unlimited Walter turbine?)

Is there a Snorkel MOD?

The point is, I'm sure the XVIII has advantages, (Just noticed reload speed ... wow!) but the lack of fuel ... makes it pointless!

You can't I just have a XXI? Thats actually ueful and a whole lot different to the XI, from what I've seen, the XVIII is just a more 'wared' upversion of the IX, but completly lacks everything else needed. (IE its good at forward attack, but sucks at retreating, submerging, defence etc)

If you cannot but others can you simply do something wrong with fuel management. I suppose you travel into assigned patrol area too fast.

Nope, no matter what speed I go at, even at 1kts, I can't get to an axis base.

That's what you're doing wrong then. Slower speed DOES NOT necessarily equal better fuel economy. Find out the most economic cruising speed for your boat, and you'll have no trouble reaching the patrol areas.

No! Unlimited fuel will not give unlimited "Goose Juice". That will always deplete. Try a ten knot speed to get where you are going, else you have a fuel leak.

The boats in SH4 actually have a pretty well simulated hull drag model.

As a boat moves through the water it creates drag, this drag increases as the boat speeds up, but it also increases when it slows down. That's right, drag increases at slower speeds. The boat has an optimum speed for best speed and drag, this is where the drag is at its its lowest, and the boat is operating at the most efficient.

For instance. These are the speeds and ranges for a gato leaving port.
at 1/3 the boat had a range of 5585 NM, at 2/3, 11778 NM, Stand 15113 NM, Full 5548, and finally flank 3634 NM. So the optimal cruise for this boat is at standard speed, which is about 10 kts. This is also affected by weather and sea state, but not all the much.

The type XVIII is a very very clean hull design hydrodynamically. Compared to the long legged type IX, the hull of the type XVIII is very slick, which allows it to travel further per gallon of fuel than the less smooth type IX.

I am going to do a range test with the type XVIIII and post my results. Stay tuned.

Ok, so the hydrostatics for the typeXVIII stink.
 

I did a speed and range check, and yea, the boat is pretty awful as far as range it concerned.

Here are the results.
1/3: 15868 KM, at 7kts
2/3: 13243 KM, at 10kts
stand: 7126 km, at 15kts
Full: 5255 km, at 17kts
Flank: 4649 km, at 18kts.

Remember these ranges are in kilometers. The milage at the best range speed is 8569 NM, just over half the range of the Gato at standard (10kts).

It is in no way a long range boat. Probably another reason the boat was converted over to the type XXI standard.

As far as a hard hitting, "strike and fade" weapon this thing is top notch. You can quietly sneak in, fire your first salvo, engage the walter and dive deep, all the while reloading your tubes, going back to silent running at periscope depth, and make another attack. And you can do this over and over again, and as long as the walter holds out, and the number of torps you have, you can decimate a large convoy single handedly, without having to worry about depth charges. If you get pinged, you can dash away and re allocate your targets...on the other side of the convoy.

If the Walter drive did not have the bad tendency to blow up at the wrong moment, this would really have been a terrible weapon against the allied fleets.

Thank God the drive liked to explode.

All your above deliberations refers to optimal control theory, guys. In short, optimal speed/range value is an example of minimum energy trajectory solved by Bellman equation.
Of course it is quite hard to understand but it can clearly explain why the slowest sub speed doesn't offer the longest range. :know:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellman_equation

This is a big mistake! It should be as follows: "If the Walter drive had not had..." - Type three Conditional! ;)

XVIII is a Cheetah
 

As you all know, XVIII wasn't made for pacific theatre, and they were short legs for this wide area.
Simple problem to solve using larger fuel tanker on this big ship... but simply a bad theatre for them, historically ...

Here is the way I use the XVIII : it's like boom and zoom => cruising 11 knts to go to patrol area (11.000km range), then patroling at 1/3 (7 knts) on the desirated zone, until I have a proximity radio contact or, even better, until one of my sensor reveal me a potential target.

If it's a radio message for an incoming (not outgoing) contact, I plot an interception path to meet the target, only if I could do that without expending to much fuel to hunt.
This mean, no much than 200km (say 100NM) ( at full (17knts), if i couldn't intercept the target within 100NM, I simply forget it and wait for another one.
If it's easy to go to an interception point, I do my best to go there with minimal fuel consomption : If I can go there to 11 kts it's nicer than to go at 17 knts, so you simply have to plot a good path when it's possible.

Once a target pop up to my sensor, I immediately go to Walter propulsion.
If a target is caught by sonar, I have around 20 miles before watching it, so, moving at standard, surfacing, at 23knts right ahead to the target position, reading, during the way in, the right or left defilement on the sonar to lead the path of the target.

Once I see the smoke (using PE here) I finalize the approach, staying enought away to avoid detection (remember to send a "convoy" message to the base when you could do, it will help you and give you more objectives, increasing the immersion).
During that time, I manage to position myself, very easily with walter sytem, ahead of the convoy path.

So the final word is this : only use the walter propulsion when you already have caught a contact on you sensor, never before.
This way you could make around 4 patrol with your H2O2 (reloading 2 or 3 times).
This is actually my first patrol with XVIII, just finished to use all of my torps and half of my fuel, still 84% of H2O2, 45.000 tons in 10 days, south of Java for patrol area.
Stock SHIV (XVIII is implayable with RFB) only external view (for the show)

Fortunatly, there is lot of refueling point, but XVIII is really short leg in fuel for pacific theatre.
Amazing boat anyway.
With 1/4 of type IX torpedo as reload, once you found a convoy, he is in very bad trouble, whatever the escort, all major ships are condamned.

It's harder to find them than to sink them, but usual uboat commander will be really surprised at the speed all things will occurs, about 3 to 4 time faster than usually.
That's need to be pretty accurate and to think 3 to 4 times speeder than in a conventionnal WWII submarine.
But this is not because you have a so good weapon, you become a terrific commander, this ship need to be properly handled to be used correctly.
It's simply not a "magic boat", and you have to learn to do the job in 3 to 4 time less time than other submarines.
Here, experimented submariners will do a much bigger difference than average ones.
Even if it's much more easier to evade problems, it's also harder to engage, as the window is shorter to fire at targets.

This XVIII / XXI are the first modern submarines, in term of performance, the way they are built, and doctrine used with them.
Americans, russians, english and french used this technology at the end of war to built new generation submarines.
We could say XVIII (more likely XXI) completely changed the face of submarine warfare after the end of WWII.