On manual targetting how do I compute target speed?
 

I'm wondering that now I give the u-boat mission/SH4 1.5 a try well the damn button to calculate the target speed is still broken.

How do you play with manual solution?

I love SH3. I even play SH3 with modded TDC so I use mechanical computer dials to make my solution.

SH4 even if the measuring speed was not broken it would still feel arcadish. I gave up on SH4 after the first 2 patches or was that three? Now even with v1.5 it's still proving itself not a worthy successor to SH3.

Simplest way in my opinion (short of guessing), is to range and mark the target on the map, wait 6 minutes and range and mark the target again. Measure the distance between the two marks (in nautical miles) and multiply by 10. You now have the target's speed in knots. This is made even simpler with the addition of target icons and/or a nomograph.

Another way to measure it is to set your periscope just infront of the ship (this method works best when you are as close to perpendicular as possible with the targets path) Get out the chronometer and when the bow of the ship hits the vertical line in the periscope start the chronometer. DONT MOVE THE PERISCOPE!!! when the Stern of the ship hits the vertical line stop the chronometer. Get out the paper manual that came with the game. Now divide that length by the time and multiply by two. This gives you a pretty good guestimate of the speed (in knots) I always round up to the nearest half a knot to compensate for any errors and angle issues that come up when you are not perfectly perpendicular to the target when measuring. So far so good! It's more accurate than the guess speed button for the US TDC. Havent tried to work out manual targeting on the U-boats yet, been playing around with my Pocket BB too much :)

:|\\

Yes, but this only works for AOBs near 90, correct?

I've had it work out to as far as 45 degrees AOB. I always took two measurments anyways. The first set was when it was far out there to get the correct ships heading and distance and a rough speed (so I could compensate my attacks so I got a near perfect 90 degree AOB) The second is when the target is much closer and is generally about 30 seconds before I launch torpedo's and that is to make sure everything is honed in perfect so that I'm gaurnteed a hit. So I guess yes you could say it works best at 90 degrees AOB but it's close enough. I havent missed very many ships since using that instead of the Crew determined speed (which I find to be off)

Your method is certainly more practical but 6 minutes is a long time to wait to get a targets speed!

:|\\

Any object of known length will traverse a point in space at the same time no matter the observed angle. If the AOB is zero there will be no observable speed across the fixed point ie Perscope crosshairs or periscope edge, but with any measurable AOB the target motion across the point of reference will be visible therefore measurable. Just remember that own ships speed can offset fixed point of reference speed estimate.

If you are behind, unless you can end round your screwed anyway, if your in front and AOB is zero, you may have a shot and of course you should open up the angle for an ideal solution.

Any good skipper will use many methods to get good solution data, nomogragh, fixed reference, plotting and measuring time, distance. I personally use the built in speed estimate with good results. Just remember that the greater the range to contact the greater the error. Get as many estimates as possible and average them out.

There are many posts on this topic, just not in the mod forum.

One thing to note though is that if you are moving this can throw off the results if you are not at a 90AOB. I always go to full stop before an attack anyways (I'm an ideal Sub captain :D) That is, if I'm attacking a moving target. Most of my sinkings are from sneaking into big ports like Singapore, Bankok, etc and sinking the merchants there. I find more pleasure in sneaking past DD guards to the goods and sometimes the tonnage is amazing!.

Thanks everybody I've downloaded a pdf guide on manual TDC.

I just wish that there's mechanical dials mod like one available to SH3. I prefer rotating dials with the mouse than punching in the calculator:). Measuring through map contact update looks tempting LOL.

And I miss the ability to call on(point and click) my officers/crews to give them orders.

I know I'm I should not be whiner. Thanks guys.

you talking about the U-jagd tools AOB finder, as found in the U-jagd and OLC mods? Mikhayl ahs converted it to SH4UBM - you can get the link to it in the UBM mods thread

joe

OMG thank you. Do I still nedd Krupps' fixed mast height for version 1.5?

I'm using OLC's actually but they are actually very very similar

It's for 1024x768 unfortunately. I'm playing at 1440x900 which is a wide screen resolution.

i think it works fine as it is in SH4

and i know the U-jagd and OLC aob finders are very, very similiar - they are the same! OLC incorporates U-jagd as it says on post one of his thread. OLC just altered the colours using hue adjustment in Gimp to suit his taste, and has spent more time developing his lens reticule.

too bad about the resolution. I don't know how hard it is to adjust that - maybe you can do it? is it not just a matter of resizing? Why don't you try it and post a screenshot of how it looks and maybe someone can tell you how to adjust it.

joe

dont know why noone has suggested it yet, but if you have radar installed you can make a mark of targets exact location. Start the stopwatch, make another mark 3 minuites later and measure the distance, drop the last two decimal places and walla you have target speed. ie. distance travled 900yds=9 kts. this works for me quite flawlessly.:up:

In which case you need to have map contact updates on, and all that that entails, and not fear enemy radar warning equipment - which is fine for when you are facing the Japanese, but the Brits and Americans are altogether different in this regards

If you don't want to use map contacts, you could always take a snap shot of your radar screen and dump the screenshot into aaronblood's mobo and plot your contacts accordingly. It's what I do now until we can get a useful radar with a range readout gauge.

That is why I run Trigger Maru. With map contacts on you don't get excessive information that a captain wouldn't have. You get what a plotting team would provide: no silhouettes, no velocity vectors, no target id or even type, no friend or foe. If you can't see it in your periscope or radar, it isn't there. It vanishes when you turn radar off or lower periscope. I think it is more realistic than leaving contacts off because it reasonably simulates part of what a plotting team would do for a captain. You still have to plot to determine target course, speed and possible zig pattern, something no captain would EVER have to do. But if the machine did that, where is the possible human error?

Human error is part of good simulation. Keeping that engaged while making tasks appropriat to the point of view of the game (that of a sub captain) is very difficult and cannot be done perfectly. For me, TMO is the best compromise, with map updates on.

Also, many Japanese after 1943 had radar and radar detection. You are just as likely to be discovered by the Japanese as by the Brits and Yanks. However, this brings up a philosophical question. If you are afraid the enemy might see you, do you blind yourself? The American answer in the Pacific was no. Throughout his attack on Shinano, and in spite of the fact that he knew the Japanese could detect his radar, Joe Enright left Archerfish's radar on. He would rather have the information, even if the Japanese could see too. He bagged his target. Americans are strange. We are unpredictable and sometimes ignore "obvious" rules. Sometimes we reap the whirlwind and sometimes we bag the Shinano. Just compare Patton and Monty. I want Patton up there when the chips are down.

This
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=136606
.. will help you remain undetected until the last minute
:)

There's a WW2 movie clip somewhere of a UBoat sonar operator counting revs with a stopwatch in his hand - so the method was used

I would be very careful about making conclusions about reality from watching a movie. Deriving speed from rev counts demands knowledge of that specific ship, something not available to WWII navies. The most they could tell was whether they were speeding up or slowing down, moving away or toward. Any speed info would be a rough guess, unless working with one of your own ships that had been extensively researched.

Here's what US Navy's Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual(Chapter 8) from 1952 says on the subject of speed determination. Even though the manual is post WW2 I doubt the methods were much different during the war.

Yeah, what I said! Turn count next to useless because there WERE no turn count curves and data for Japanese ships. Consult tater for confirmation.

In exercises conducted in 1952, the targets would have been friendly ships, about which almost unlimited information, including precise tpm/speed curves, would be available.