Bismarck, Yamato or Arizona
 

Wich of this incredible battleships you think it's the best, the bismarck was the best Ship in the kriegsmarine, the Yamato was the best ship of the japan imperial navy, and everyone knows the Arizona, the lost one in pearl harbor. But which of these is the most incredible battleship of the WWII.

http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/war/bismarck.jpg
Bismarck

http://www.maritimequest.com/warship.../02_yamato.jpg
Yamato

http://www.ibiblio.org/phha/BB-39_ARIZONA9.GIF
USS Arizona

Hmm. Best WW2 battleship ever. This one has been argued many times.:hmm: Combined Fleet's website did a comprehensive arguement on this one once....

http://www.combinedfleet.com/baddest.htm

These three warships do summarize the fall of the battleship from grace well. All were victims of airpower. Maybe Bismarck to a lesser extent, but they still sealed her fate.

What happened to the Iowa class?:hmm:

You can always vote 'other'. ;)

Bismarck, she's sexy and she's got one hell of a story. (or should I say "he" like Lindemann did?)

Bismarck. Technologically she is superior in all aspects to the IJN Yamato and USN Arizona. One exception: Her RADAR equipment is inferior to the Arizona's (assuming Arizona would have been refit with updated technology). Bismarck's armour plate is superior to American Class "A" plate by a rather significant amount and her gunnery is superlative. As a battleship, the KM Bismarck is the terror of the seas.

By the by... why no Royal Navy option? RN had some pretty fierce battlewagons armoured with some very good ("CA," cemented armour) plate, even superior to what Bismarck was protected by.

Battle ships.
 

The Arizona was a sister to the USS Texas, Both were built for WWI and were small enough to survive the "Washington Treaty" Limiting battleship size and production. Had the Arizona not been sunk at pearl harbor it would have likly been scrapped in 43 to build something else.

Name the only 3 battle in which Battle ships enguaged each other as they were ment too.

2nd battle of Guadalacanal, Suriago Strait, the Bismarck vs Hood and Prince of Wales and her finale with KGV and the Rodney. You also could probably make an arguement for the 1943 North Cape battle. 'Battlecruiser' Scharnhorst was taken unawares and pounded by the HMS Duke of York in the frigid waters north of Norway.

Yamato for me, Bismark and Arizona come an equal 2nd.

Has anyone seen that CG documentary from HBO on the fate of the Yamato. Brilliant how they did it I watched it on Stage6 awhile back. A must see.

IJN Yamato has the bigest guns ever but it showed the key weakness to every battleship(funny all of these BB had been sunk or damaged criticaly by airplane).

May be the bismark would win here simply because she had short but glamorous carrier.

Answers
 

Ok First time the BBs met in battle was during the Chrimean war. The russians had a bunch of mixed gun dreadnaughts, the Japs had the more modern big gun only BBs, the Japs mopped the Ruskies butts.

2nd Battle of Jutland WWI. The Germans, though vastly outnumbered and outgunned, managed to out manuver the British battle fleet, scoring some very serious hits. The Brits had not armored the decks of thier BB's and as a result suffered a couple of very serious hits. The Germans however would never sortie thier fleet again for the entire war and thier ships would later be scuttled in Scapa Flow after the war.

Final time was Seriguia Straight. This was really the only time in wich BBs of similar size and class met in a battle that had meaning, and outcome. The US Admiral managed to cross the T against the Japs, bringing all of the US guns to bear, and as a result inflicted heavy damage and turned the Jap fleet.

From 1890-1943 World navies consider the BBs the ultimate superweapon, even when faced with OVERWHELMING evidence that it was unlikely that the BBs would ever be used for thier intended purpose, and that they were vunerable to both plunging fire from BBs as well as smaller ships with large calibre guns, and Air attack. The Washington Treaty that limited the Size and construction of BBs prior to WWII was an attempt to stop an arms race between the US and Britian. It has been said that the Washington Treatie may have adversly affected both the US, and British Navies at the start of WWII, but it also likely prevented a war between the US and Briton in 1930.

I know you didnt ask, but thought you might be intrested. As far as my favorite BB. I would go with the Fairy Swordfish.

Bismark for threat, Yamoto for looks, would have gone one of the Queen Elizabeth class rather than the Arizona for mine.

on this we disagree Tarjak

imho bismarks greatest strength was "spin"

measured against her contemporaries she was not
as capable a ship.

far and away the Best overall BB in WWII and history
is the USN Iowa Class.

bismarks rep far outwieghed her combat power.
she wasnt the most powerful battleship in the world
at the time she sailed. She was sold as that to the brits by
churchill who overemphasized her threat as a naval
unit to put priority on her destruction as a commerce
raider.
but in direct comparison she doesnt stand up.
M

Mush, I said threat not strength. In this I was taking into account her "rep" which was a far greater part of her power than most of her other attributes.

No other ship was as hunted, except maybe Tirpitz, but she was never really used to her full potential either.

I agree the Iowa class was probably the most powerfull to sail.

AAHH you beat me to the combinedfleet post. That's a great comparison. The Arizona wouldn't last 5 seconds against the Yamato or Bismarck. An Iowa class though...:hmm: I think that would kick ass.

Yamato and Musashi also while quite clearly tremendous ships
with exquisitely streamlined hulls. had short legs and flawed
protection as well as mounts that while elevating and depressing
handily turnded as slow as a WWI mount. also with the american
16 inch having twice the rate never mind the ships better range and protection
I dont think that yamato rates more than mention in the consideration.

its interesting to observe that if yamato had been caught alone on the open
sea by two Des Moines class cruisers they probably wouldve taken her
with there extreme ROF of 30000 lbs of metal per minute better speed and
better protection and damage control.

Dont get me wrong Yamato Musashi and Shinano Capture the imagination
but they didnt achieve there design potentials by any stretch I dont think
further in the case of the BBs it seems likely they could have done it
on 4000 tons less and may have been better advised to go with a
smaller Calibre main armament of twelve faster guns.
penetration difference for 18.1" vs US 16" ap is not that much and under
some circumstances the 16" comes out on top.

jmo
M

Indeed its the airplane not the torpedo boat or submarine
that killed the battleship
secondary batteries were largely flawed that way outside the US.

Roma, Conte d Cavour, Tirpitz, Prince of wales, Repulse ,Arizona,
Oklahoma, Yamato and Musahi can attest to the effectiveness of
aircraft in naval combat.

only Hiei, Fuso, and Scharnhorst support an anti surface secondary

shore bombardment by battleships while impressive psychologically
was better done by six and eight inch gun cruisers which were
cheaper too. the only effective wwII role for battleships really
was as superior AA escorts in the carrier groups and at least
in the case of the USN they knew no equal.

M

I vote Iowa class.:up:

Yamato was great, but I voted other. My fave has to be the Warspite....no other ship did so much and saw so much at least in the RN, the KGVs are a bit underestimated. I do think the USN's best were the Iowa...just for the AA battery.

BTW kiwi awesome sig mate. :up:

Warspite would be my contender for greatest single battleship

but if we were talking designs that went to production then I
would pick Iowa which is what my vote for other will stand to
mean.