Post patch 1.4 idea for modders
 

This is just an idea, and i hesitate to post it cause im not sure how it will be accepted. But, with patch 1.4, i see an opportunity for all of us here. After the patch is released, what we'll really have here are three things.

1.) Mod which are no longer needed.
2.) Mods which are still needed but need to be made compatible.
3.) mods which are still compatiable.

But overall, large modpacks like TMaru or RFB, for a time period cease to exist, and all we have are the above three listed items.


Now, its my opinion, that modders in general, all have their area of expertise, and are probably happiest when they can focus on that one thing that bugs them the most. Some modders are great with sound files. Others are great with graphics, campaign scripting, AI tweaking, physics tweaking, what have you.

Currently, we all have our own ideas of what we want our game to be, and freely share or borrow from one another. BUt for the most part, im willing to bet there is a baseline that we're all sharing or have in common.

So here's the idea. After patch 1.4 is released, we put all "name brand" mods on hold. At this point they really dont exist as an entity anyway. Their just a collection of mods that needs to be broken apart and re examined. Since we're all going to be doing that anyway, I say, lets combine our efforts. Lets make a single "superMod" to establish a baseline, and mod to individual taste from there.

This single "supermod" i think should encompass all the things that we commonly mod in our individual packages anyway. Naturally they'll be differences of opinion, and i think the way around that is simple.

This "supermod"s only guideline i think, should be to address things that are still broken, historically inaccurate, or technically inaccurate. This supermod, we could call it "unoffical patch 1.5". And be the type of thing that we'd be unfraid to say, "just copy this into your sh4/data directory and forgetbboutit". So what kind of things should this include? The list is quite large when you think about it. For example.

- submarine fixes
- aircraft loadouts
- campaign files.
- realistic radar

the list could go on if you really wanted to hash it out. The focus being, "lets make it historically accurate, and do our own thing after its done". In short, we create vanilla ice cream. Of course, some folks like their vanilla with some sprinkes, or some like it with fudge.. thats fine. Its called "Flavored to taste" But you can't flavor anything if you don't have the ice cream to begin with. Once we have the ice cream made, we can run off into our own little visions of the game again, and ill betcha our indiviual "supermods" after that will be ALOT smaller, just 'fixing' the things we didnt agree with as individuals when creating the historically accurate supermod.


Now all of this effort will require a publisher. Someone will have to compile all the invidual works, and i think that this publisher (whoever it is, and i prefer it to NOT be myself), is that this is all this person does. Combine the mods into the total package. They don't mod anything, they just combine.

I don't think we need a project manager. I think we can handle this in a round table approach.

Overall, i think we can all bennfitt from this. Both from a workload point of view, and from a tech support point of view. Im sure alot of us are tired of "installation order" posts. We put it all together, and then just flavor it to our own individual needs after its done. In the end, the community has a historic baseline to choose from, and individual "taste" mods to choose from.


Just an idea.
( And yes i admit, im also being lazy and dont want to update Tmaru for patch 1.4 )

I personaly other than visuals for my sub am going to see what the game is like as is
 

Once it is patched to 1.4 I am going to see exactly what is what and test the game to the max before I do a thing and see what it is like and give the Dev's the chance they deserve with all the new work.

I will not put down a thing in the open from this patch unless it is too obvious to miss.

Customize my sub and play the game then see where we are at.

Well, thats a given. You can't run off and go modding stuff if you don't know what is what. That said, some items, ill bet will still be "off". Crew rank configurations for example. The stock crew is often topheavy in rank, or crew members in various positions with rank that does not match the position it occupies. Its minor items like this, that i woudlnt expect the developers to spend much time on. Another example being sinking mechanics. Theres no reason why they would change it, while most of us agree on some form of NSM style mechanics. (myself included even though i currently don't use it).

Well--since I really have done squat to mod SH4--I may be out of place speaking up here but...

I have been involved in large modding projects in the past and know how difficult/demanding/pita it can be.

What Ducimus said makes perfect sense to me.

Besides--you guys all deserve a vacation :yep:.

Peto

I prefer individual releases. That way I can get "fixes" and not the "historically accurate-way-to-damn-difficult" mods. No I am not a FPSer as some would call it. I'm just getting tired of being sunk on my first patrol. I prefer a "fair game for most players" as opposed to a "great game for the hardcore". That's my rant, sorry. I really do appreciate everybody's work, you are all great. I just really suck at the game and the bugs don't help. :cry:

Duci you just can't keep that hand out of the cookie jar can you?!
 

:rotfl: I bet your Mom use to yell at you everyday for getting into everything in the house when you were young!

Me if it moved and or had moving parts I had to see how it worked and thank god I can not see the moving part's in here or I would have already rebuilt and turbo charged the motor's on the sub's. :rotfl:

LEO, is LBO and ROW the same now? Also do I have to use NSM or TM for ROW?

LBO is totlay in ROW now
 

All of my ocean work is now in ROW so there is no need to use LBO.

For the moment yes it is sugested to use NSM for the Special effect's folder from ROW to work well.

There will be no need for it in the near future though as I am making a zone's file to work with the stock game. I will try and get it posted for everyone tomarrow.

But no you do not need T.M. or any other mod right now other than NSM.

Like i did with RFB1.31 you mean .

You know, maybe your right. I do get myself in too deeply into things. I should probably use patch 1.4 as a sign to just let things go and stop getting into things. Get out of this altogether. I really want to, but its like im addicted to messing with the game files.

edit:
You know what my problem is...... I know too much. Back when i first started playing SH3 a few years back, i knew NOTHING. Parts of the game was a total mystery, and things that bugged me, i just dealed with it because it was part of the game, and i didnt know any better. Once i learned how to tweak things, it all went downhill from there. I see something, i have to change it, and one change leads to another change, which leads to another, and before i know it, im not even playing the game anymore, just tweaking files. Its an endless cycle.

In a way, i wish i never got into modding.

I think a lot of people are looking for a 1.4 compatible mod that consists of TM and ROW together. After that, they are looking for small individual mods to add at will.

Seriously--I know how you feel.... You can't fire it up without thinking about making something "just a little better" and "now what if I tried....". It is an addiction and that's one of the reasons I haven't gotten into it too much with SH3 and 4.

So--you have basically 3 choices:

1. Walk Away: I'm the last one that would blame you for that. Sometimes modding actuallu takes over a big part of our free time and (by default) our life. Is it worth it in the balance? (Sometimes it is...if it's FUN).

2. Keep Going for Perfect: Which will most likely never happen. This game isn't a pig--it's more like your favorite house pet. And my cat still pukes on the rug sometimes. ie--the sim will never be perfect because there just too d**m many definitions of perfect.

3. Take some time off and ENJOY what you have done!!! Wait for 1.4 and make a last run at tweaks that YOU want for YOUR OWN reasons, share them with the community and announce your retirement.

Personally, I recommend 3. Doing #1 nags at you (I know from experience) and 2 is next to impossible. And besides--I'm selfish and would like to see what happens with 1.4 and what you do to improve upon it (I'm sure it'll need just a tweak or two yet LOL). Don't get so hooked that you burn out though. You do that and the game will never really be fun for you again...

Salute!!!

Peto

I know it might be a lot of admin type work, but why not create a master list of mods (ie, all independents as well as a break out of the super mods like TM and RFB), then ask everyone to post a list of their favorite bits and pieces?

I'm sure there will be many that are universally (or at least commonly) preferred. That would be a good basis for both a 1.4 evaluation (to see what on the list was fixed) and the start of a post 1.4 mod pack (to address those things on the list that weren't fixed).


JD

Compairing SHIV modding to marriage
 

Dangerous ground =s Valor at Sea,for us. Valor being committed to leadership,with prudent decisions,for freedom to fight,or dive for the door/thermal in order to enjoy tomorrow when the storm is past.Alive:lol:
Duci's example of FtT,is like unto a trophy wife,but a foundation must have reverse engineering options,in order to regain the love of the game/wife,& move Fwd together into new missions/campaigns.
Commitment needs to be a cornerstone in the marriage/mod,& it is something of a benevolent dictatorship to keep that focus,as head chair person on a modding forum
I do hope you-all can make out the analogy that I am trying to impart:doh: :sunny:
Subsim is a home to inspire valor in youth,for the future much like SHIV,& WWII:yep:

Well, it was an idea.

I have alot of ideas.

Trouble is, most of em suck.

It's tough since so much is interrelated.

tater

I was 2 seconds away from typing, in big capital letters, "Count me in for whatever you want to do Ducimus".

Then I remembered what I said to myself the other night; it's time for me to step back a bit and just relax and play some other games again. Take a break from sub mod testing, forum arguing, etc etc.

I just bought Valve's HL2 Orange Box. What a blast. "Portal" is simply gaming brilliance.

Bunch of other new games out or about to come out. Company of Heroes expansion. C&C3 expansion. COD4: Modern Warfare. The Witcher. Lots of games to just relax and enjoy.

Plus I'm heavily involved in the development studio in my sig. I run my own business. Wife and kids. I train twice a day like a pro bodybuilder.

I don't even know when I sleep anymore.


But, I caught the modding bug 8 years ago and it never goes away. Let's play it by ear. I'm more inclined to get excited about the add on next spring, than the soon_to_arrive patch.

But we'll see.

If it starts to happen Duci, you can probably count me in. I can do anything; sounds, skinning, campaign layer/cfg edits. Etc.

Ive told myself that three times or so. I need to follow through on it. I really do want to quit. Id be much happer posting patrol logs then mod revisions. Trouble is, if the game bugs me somehow, i know ill rip into the guts of it so it doesnt, simply because i can. Once you do that, it starts a spiraling trend thats hard to get away from.

I'm actually fine with the idea, though, I think it's sound as an alternate "supermod" framework, I didn't mean to be discouraging.

A long time ago, I made an suggested IJN ship substitution list.

RSRD (as the only other campaign) expands on it by adding some ships from various SH3 ship mods (many of which are not IJN, so not on my list).

I can see certain frameworks ensuring that all such mods are compatible. Have a master list of ships and what they should sub for. An agreed list of new ships to fill needed roles (things like Kaibokans, etc, til we get "real" ones to use).

If such a master ship/aircraft/sub list was kept as a unique mod, for example, then maintaining it would be easier. A single ROW compatible version to keep track of, for example. I've been thinking of a "Combined Fleet" mod for all the japanese shipping. An agreed framework might be something like:

Ship Mod 1 IJN (all warships in here, even if IJA, etc)
Ship Mod 2 Japanese Merchants
Ship Mod 3 USN
Ship Mod 4 RN and Commonwealth
Ship Mod 5 All other shipping

Aircraft Mod 1 IJNAF/IJAAF
Aircraft Mod 2 USN/USAAF
Aircraft Mod 3 RAF/RAAF/RNAF/RIAF/FAA/KNIL/MLD
Aircraft Mod 4 Other AFs

The mod numbers above would be the required install order. Each install would use the Names.cfg from the previous # mod as a baseline. The order I picked was not random, the japanese as #s 1 and 2 means that you could just install them for a campaign that might not alter the allied roster. My campaign doesn't alter it simply because I never expect to see any battles as a sub---having tried to make some, they are not accurate enough for my taste, I don't want to see bad surface battles. I figure if the IJN ships aren't shooting Long Lance torpedoes at Savo in SH4, I really don't care if the USS Quincy is not the right type of CA in game, the fact that the battle is prosecuted utterly wrong by the AI trumps the ship types, IMO. I usually don;t start in port because I actually find the ports anti-immersive since they tend to be overbuilt, or in the case of PH, just plain wrong in ways I instantly recognize when I see it. As a result I never see USN ships.

So having a modular system is possible, and mods can go up the realism scale as needed. If a campaign doesn't use extra allied ships to reduce load times, it only need use the base parts. Meanwhile, the campaign makers don't have to constantly reinvent the wheel regarding bashed ships. By sharing the same ship names, a based substitute can later be replaced without mucking up the campaign.

Take a Kaibokan C, for example. I might make it and call it Kaibokan_C, but lurker might have it NCD_TypeC. Later, if the new ship works start churning out Kaibokans, it would be extra work if they were labeled by me as Kaibokan_C, and lurker wanted to use it and had to change all the #$@%#@ names. Better to have a standard there. That sort of thing.

The aircraft are trickier since they also use the Names.cfg. A stand alone order is posted above, but the japanese could really be set to Mod 2b, then the US planes to 3b, etc. Same logic applies, you actually see japanese planes, they seek you out. The only time you see allied planes is usually lifeguard missions.


tater

good foundation
 

Your idea is thoughtful,& needed,it will earn you adulation Thu commitment.we retired from the idea of marriage because someone must have veto power,men can only give.Now thats commitment:rotfl: