[TEC] Can MG and 20mm fire be made dangerous to our subs?
 

It's pretty absurd how rare it is for my deck crew to take damage in combat. Strafed? It's just noise. DD, other escort, or even a merchant lets go with a fusillade of 25mm? Nada.

The only time I ever hear "Medic!" is a second or 2 before the boat goes down. (shouldn't that be "Doc!" BTW? What would they call the pharmacist's mate, medic is an Army term).

Anyway, It would be nice if the sub could be damaged by such fire, or more importantly if the CREW on deck could be made vulnerable.

Any ideas?

tater

Good question (and yes--Doc would be more appropriate). As far as I've read, it typically took large caliber (3" plus) to actually cause serious hull damage to a sub. As far as the small stuff, I'm pretty sure I've had a couple guys gunned down by a plane once when the bombs missed and there was no other damage. They were both wounded. But I "think" that was the only time that happened (although I try to avoid such action as I have no proclivity for being shot at :lol: ).

I'm interested what other paople's experiences with this are.

But I bet all the code that controls that function is deeply imbedded...

Cheers!

Peto

Yes, "Doc" would be better. In the navy he's called a corpsman, but nobody ever actually says that.

There was that bug with the deck crew dying, was the fix to make them hard to kill?

tater

The easy answer might be to simply increase the shell damage, assuming its independant of the players.

Or maybe, lower the armor rating on the player sub, but that might backfire where DC's are concerned.

Yeah, I thought of upping 20/25mm damage. Even if whacked by DD main guns I only rarely suffer deck casualties, I think somethign else is going on.

Fixing this would go a long way to ending "gunboat" submarines.

Would make some of the lessr armed craft more interesting if you run into them, right nw you can literally ignore 20mm, and 20mm is nasty.

tater

Ahh, i just rememberd, in TMaru i upped the crews hitpoints. Default i think is 5, they have 10 or something like that. (i scaled that to SH3, where crew had 12 or 15, go figure).

It's an old fix for the dead watch crew shennanigans. Maybe its high time i remove that file from the mod.

Even in stock my crew almost never get wounded on deck...

there is a reason I want this :D

tater

Well i can't find in my old readme where i adjust crew HP,s but i KNOW i did. Probably back when Tmaru was FTT and i was focused more on workarounds and bugfixes. As soon as i find the file, im removing those changes. After that, its back to upping shell damage maybe?

edit: Oh ya ive often thought of upping machine gun range and accuracy. (insert evil laugh here).

Actually, it's interesting to see how close you can get to some MG armed craft before they open up...

tater

Just FYI, now that im home doing a file comparision, i DID bring the HPs down on the crew back to 5. I did this sometime when i intergrated the realistic crew mod into TMaru, so thats not the issue.

I am however, intrested in this little line in the sim.cfg

Now, im pretty sure that effects the AI, but i *think* it also effects your own AA crew. For instance i would love to change this to say, 4000 and find the Node name for machaine guns so i can have zekes straff me. however, that will probably also increase my own AA gun crews range to 4000 as well. The real solution might be in
Data\Library\ShipParts\Guns_Radars_0.*. dat, and extend the gun range on a particular gun there. I was looking through those before, and im pretty sure the guns are in one of those 3 files. Naturally theres no tweak file that im aware of, and i diging through the file by other means, i just don't have the motivation to pick through it and write one.

I've see than section before. 4000 is a bit long for 20mm, but I might make a mod that greatly reduces the aim error just to see if they are simply missing.

The big thing is that a 20mm armed ship, regardless of size, should not be something a sub ignores and battles on the surface within 20mm gunnery range.

Even those gunboats we see should be scary if you have deck crew (even without the larger gun).

tater

BTW, while not the direct fix I'd like to see (re:zero strafing), I have a way to possibly get them to strafe. We take one of the bombs and drop the damage to zero, and in fact delete the physical bomb altogether (and the impact splash it makes, etc). Then they will come in to bomb, and they will strafe.

I tried some experiments with the upc files, no dice---but I'm pretty weak at these files.

This is a critical failure, IMO.

Surface actions are a joke because of this. Read RL accounts, and as soon as even a sampan shoots back they usually open the range, then try to engage outside small arms/MG range to protect the gun crews who are so very very exposed.

Making the AAA guns more than window dressing on the target ships would go a long way to minimizing the effectiveness of the deck guns and forcing more realistic surface actions on the subs.

tater

Tater - I will fiddle with the UPC's and whatnot to see if I cant get something that works. Due to all the mods that folks use, I will just post what (if anything) change or changes are effective to get some deck gun crew casualties. Will do a bit on it tommorow as it should be a day I can relax some. No guarantees but what the heck.

To make the crew manning the Deck and the AA guns mare vulnerable you will need to increase the portion/multiplier of damage that the crew will receive by adjusting the CrewExposure= under ArtilleryRoom & FlakRoom in the SubName.UPC.

To make the bridge crew more vulnerable you will need to adjust the [TowerWatch] armour value from 15 to 9 as 9 is the 20mm shell's default AP value without taking into consideration the AP variable.

EDIT: Lost in the cut/paste/re-edit/post... For the Bridge you will need in addition to adjusting the Zones.cfg [TowerWatch] armour to adjust the CrewExposure= within the UnitParts#SubName.upc. As there are 3 conning towers for the Salmon you will need to adjust all 3 in the UnitParts5Salmon.upc file

The CrewExposure= value I tested with was 9.0.

P.S. So hard to get good help now days..........

The 20mm is used by the ships AA guns & aircraft guns.

While this will result in the on duty crew getting wounded/killed it will also result in the off duty crew getting wounded/killed at the same rate.

Another consideration will be that of the affect this will have on the casualties via depth charges.

It is my view that this area is operationally impaired.

I keep forgetting just how much is crammed into those UPC files. Thanks DTB, you saved us alot of fruitless labor.

Yeah, very interesting. I'd rather drop the DC damage and have 20mm lethal.

tater

I messed with the crew exposure.

I picked Sargo, and made a mode that changed it from the default values (0.3 I think) to 0.9/ Parked next to a ship armed with AAA and sat there. I took out the ships screws, and sat there for ages, no damage at all with constant AAA hitting all over the sub maybe a boat length away.

What do I need to change that to?

tater

I have me moments :rotfl:


I tested with a value of 9.0. Also remember that there is 3 conning towers for the Salmon so you will need to adjust all 3 in the UPC file.