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-   -   Navy Blue Angel down (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112802)

geetrue 04-21-07 04:57 PM

Navy Blue Angel down
 
One person reported dead, but not the pilot at a Navy Blue Angel air show in South Carolina ... This is just an early report:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/21/blu...ash/index.html

Camaero 04-21-07 04:59 PM

Damn:down:

04-21-07 05:12 PM

Fox is saying that the pilot was the fatality.

tycho102 04-21-07 05:17 PM

They need to swap out all those airframes. They're all lot 6's and 8's -- they need to update to lot 17's or something. Probably take quite a bit of retraining for the avionics, but at least the airframe wouldn't have so many hours on it. They have really outstanding maintenance practices, but that just isn't any substitute for non-destructive-inspection like the Airforce does on their planes, and ordinary airframe stress.

I am never surprised when one of those planes drops out. It is nothing less than astounding how long they've already lasted.


note- I don't remember bunos, but lot 6's date back to 1988.

Bubblehead Nuke 04-21-07 06:52 PM

I live in Penascola,Fl hometown for the Blue Angels. We have direct commmunity contacts here.

They have confirmed the pilot is dead.

Here is the link to our newspaper here in Pensacola

http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/.../70421005/1006

Enigma 04-21-07 09:25 PM

:cry:

U-533 04-22-07 07:26 AM

:damn:

Skybird 04-22-07 07:31 AM

Such shows are simply stupid. I still have the TV-images of Ramstein on my mind. It's like holding live-firing excersices with tanks in urban areas.

U-533 04-22-07 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird
Such shows are simply stupid. I still have the TV-images of Ramstein on my mind. It's like holding live-firing excersices with tanks in urban areas.

I think you just answered your own Signature there skybird

SUBMAN1 04-22-07 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird
Such shows are simply stupid. I still have the TV-images of Ramstein on my mind. It's like holding live-firing excersices with tanks in urban areas.

No its not. It is meant to drum up support for the military and it does a great job at it, by inspiring our young.

Airliners are more dangerous and have a much worse safety record. Maybe we should ground them so that they don't fly over our homes anymore. (sarcasm)

-S

PS. Sad day. I feel for those boys.

Skybird 04-22-07 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1
No its not. It is meant to drum up support for the military and it does a great job at it, by inspiring our young.

Then play honest - give the young a strong impression of real war, not showbiz. If then they still wish to join, okay. It is immoral to cheat and trick somebody into joining by showing-off like this and hiding the grim truth at the same time.

Airliners, btw usually try to fly in a way to keep risks as low as possible. Airshows like the Blkue Angels try exactly the opposite and mock the devil while trying to get away with it. Well, maybe I have a too cold temper to be impressed by such schoolyard behavior. I don't see neither value nor pride in taking greater risks than needed, or taking risks for something that is not worth it.

CCIP 04-22-07 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird
Then play honest - give the young a strong impression of real war, not showbiz. If then they still wish to join, okay. It is immoral to cheat and trick somebody into joining by showing-off like this and hiding the grim truth at the same time.

Is there a precedent for ANY military recruitment tactics being honest? Or any type of advertisement/promotion methods for that matter? :p
It'd certainly be silly to put a disclaimer 'warning: military service may be hazardous to your health' on it, too. 'The young' should know better.

Skybird 04-22-07 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird
Then play honest - give the young a strong impression of real war, not showbiz. If then they still wish to join, okay. It is immoral to cheat and trick somebody into joining by showing-off like this and hiding the grim truth at the same time.

Is there a precedent for ANY military recruitment tactics being honest? Or any type of advertisement/promotion methods for that matter? :p
It'd certainly be silly to put a disclaimer 'warning: military service may be hazardous to your health' on it, too. 'The young' should know better.

Certainly not. But is that practice more excusable only for that reason? Again the answer: certainly not.

CCIP 04-22-07 12:32 PM

As far as the air shows - attendance to these is voluntary, and otherwise the military with all its practices is financed by the tax buck after all. I think if people opposed these events, then they wouldn't take place.

Or maybe that's as naive way of thinking about it.

In any case, I don't think these are going away any time soon, just as other dangerous events like racing and stunt shows.

moose1am 04-22-07 02:11 PM

The Blue Angles have flown over my home town several times during air shows. You don't have to be at the air show to have the jets flying low over your house. The fly over many square miles of territory during an air show.

I read that this jet flew into a power line and disintegrated so quickly that the pilot didn't have time to eject.

We lost a good man.

Attendance is not VOLUNTARY when you can't stop them from flying over your house in the country.

I ran off the road last time there were here. I was so intent on watching these jets fly off in the distance that I missed a sharp turn and ran off the road into a ditch. Had the boat trailer and boat behind me. Like to have never got that mess out of the ditch. And this was in the next county from where the air show was being peformed. Luckily I didn't do much damage to the truck or the trailer or boat.



Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP
As far as the air shows - attendance to these is voluntary, and otherwise the military with all its practices is financed by the tax buck after all. I think if people opposed these events, then they wouldn't take place.

Or maybe that's as naive way of thinking about it.

In any case, I don't think these are going away any time soon, just as other dangerous events like racing and stunt shows.


Enigma 04-22-07 03:37 PM

Quote:

It's like holding live-firing excersices with tanks in urban areas.
It is!? :o

Skybird 04-22-07 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma
Quote:

It's like holding live-firing excersices with tanks in urban areas.
It is!? :o

For me, yes. It is like flying a live weapon in maximum risk maneuvers
Those show flights are on the edge. You don't fly like that eternally. Sooner or later you get it. Much, much earlier than if you would fly normally.

Maybe you remember, half a year ago or so we had a thread about that German helicopter champion flying up and down between woods, with the rotortips just ten centimeters over the ground when the chopper made a turn. He crashed one day, was killed. nobody here was surprised, some saisd the same like I say today: you don't fly on the edge forever, sooner or later your luck is used up.

Okay with me if you do it alone. but with plenty of audience around - well, really, I still have the Ramstein images from the Tv coverage on my mind. It was a nightmare. Airshows with military jets are banned in Germany since then.

It's stupid to invite the devil for a dance. Sooner or later you learn he dances hotter than you.

Skybird 04-22-07 04:54 PM

"Inspiring the young":

http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=h...%3Dde%26sa%3DG

71 dead. Over 450 wounded, many still receive treatement until today. Not bad for just one fighter plane that carried no bombs on board.

CCIP 04-22-07 05:17 PM

Aren't the audience inviting the devil to dance in this case?

I don't know, these things just happen. Sure, you could go about it with bans, but I'm not sure if that's neccesarily the right way. We've had Rammstein, we've had Lviv, but people still come out to these things and I don't think blaming the organizers is neccesarily right - if people come to watch large metal objects flying through the sky, then they should realize that there is always some chance that something will happen. Likewise, I'm still not totally convince the practice is deadlier than most other activities. By the same logic, every manner of extreme sport, including rock climbing and paragliding should be banned to - people are unintentionally killed in voluntary activities by collision with heavy objects; earth is a heavy object.

Now when something like the infamous Tu-144 crash at Le Bourget happens and people living in houses outside the airport die, that really is a case where no playing with death was directly involved and the precedent is serious enough to consider some sort of drastic measures.

Skybird 04-22-07 05:35 PM

Must every yelling by the plebs on the street be followed - simply because they are yelling so loud? I am no fan of this theory about total and unlimited freedom, and with machines carrying thousands of gallons of jetfuel risking ridiculous stunts overhead, I vote that the stupid public needs to be protected from its own stupidity. But maybe that is neither liberal, nor politically correct. Which does not concern me in this case.

If a climber climbs beyond his limits and gets killed, usually he does not kill the audience at the ground. the comarison does not work. I'm not concerned for the pilots - if they want to try their luck, well: one shouldn't stop travellers. My argument is concerning the audience, and residents.

It is a difference to provoke havoc for others, or being cautious and falling victim to misfortune nevertheless.


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