Dems pass bill to hasten defeat
 

Bush will veto it for sure, but if this bill becomes law we're going to lose the war for sure. Then the attacks will be on our homes themselves, and we'll know who to point the finger at when the time comes full.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070327/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq

The war is lost since long. Get your boys home and back to their families, don't put them at risk all for nothing. That's the least thing that is owned to them now.

McCain deeply dissapointed me today with his comment that Gen. Patreus is driving around in an unarmed Hummer. As CCN put it, this time "he has tipped out the baby with the bathwater." CCN reporter said that troops and officers in Iraq where laughing when hearing that comment.

Two terror attacks in two Bagdhad regions today that Bush short time ago referred to as having been successfully brought under control. Grim laughter on my mind.

We're still fighting, the war hasn't been lost yet.

:roll:

That stubborness to resist any sense of realism gives a new meaning to the term "just killing time".

I'm a very pragmatic person.

What I see is a battle being fought against an enemy being supplied from outside Iraq (much like the Vietnam War and the Korean War). The battle isn't over, and it isn't about fighting an entity so much as it is an idealism that has become a scourge among people.

We will not declare victory when when "stability" occurs as we perceive it in the West since this will NEVER occur (look at Israel and the Arabs for example). We will win when the Iraqi gov't can stand on their own without our help, and the Iraqi people can vote democratically and decide their own future. That is victory.

Vietnam we lost because the politicians willed it to happen as it is happening now, seeing as how from a military standpoint we won EVERY engagement in the Vietnam war when we were involved. But we tied the hands of our commanders, limiting them to sentry duties in South Vietnam instead of destroying North Vietnams' infrastructure. We created our own demise. Once we abandoned South Vietnam, the south collapsed, and the United States is responsible for it.

When the U.S. leaves Iraq, all hell will break loose. If the Iraqi gov't collapses, we have lost the war. If we leave Iraq now, failure is guaranteed.

Typical gambler's mentality. I might just win if I continue playing, so even if the odds look unfavorable, I'd still keep putting money on the table and lose it.

By your logic, the Soviet Union should have toughed it out in Afghanistan back in the 80s, because if they leave, failure (defined as propping up their favored government) is guaranteed and they MIGHT just succeed if they continue.

It's about hearts and minds now. Not a body count of the enemy.

And we ARE winning the war.

Not every news report from the mainstream media is reliable.

When was the last time you heard anything abous schools being built in Iraq? Or about how happy Iraqis were to vote with just Iraqi citizens making the decision to govern their nation? When was the last time you remember the Media saying anything GOOD about Iraq?



Just like in Vietnam, there is a camp of reporters that want to win the war, and another camp that wants the U.S. to lose the war.

I had never thought of it from the gambler's win/loss perspective. Very interesting.

Yes, it's always the guilt of others. F### those biased medias. Damn those peaceloving lefties. All opposing people are traitors, and they are even socialists. Impossible that the decision to go to war was a decison for guaranteed failure from the very beginning. How could that be - it is America waging the war, right?
You know what - even me does not care anymore for opinions like yours. You will try to still reject reality even when it comes in form of a 60 ton MBT rolling right over you and leaving you flat on the ground. History already is four years beyond where you are standing.

Our country deserved the Iraq problem, unfortunately.

Like I said.

One camp wants to win the war.

One camp wants to lose the war.

and obviously only unpatriotic communists liberals want to lose the war. silly leftists marxist scum!

:cry:

I only disagree with sending the boys back home. Leave Iraq but reposition nearby and wait for more important battles in the near future.

No.
Yes.

:yep:

Barring climate models and the opposite sex, I can't think of many things more complicated than the Middle East right now. It's not as simple as "cut & run/stay the course", the day that anything is is the day a donkey can run the world.

Well, we are talking about the Democratic Party.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1298/donkey22rc9.gif

How the hell are we losing, were fighting a bunch of suicidal maniacs, honestly are they that hard, this guy comes charging at you strapped with dynomite, SHOOT HIM.:rotfl:

Very funny, Rilder. And not really what reality is like. Because he is not running, but walking, and not at your direction, but that of the market, and not showing an explosive belt, but driving a truckload of explosives. I agree with AL that in parts the troops should go home (those who have been running longtime service now, or even several tours), while newly arrived troops may find better use in Afghanistan. But i would prefer to see them rotated and other troops from home taking their place in Afghanistan. Several years Iraq is service enough for one man, I think."In Afghanistan I made very personal experiences with the fanatical fighters of Islam, with their utter disgust for death and religiously motivated readiness for self-sacrifice. In that cultural area of theirs we have nothing to win", said Gen. Lebed once. I see much truth in that statement not only concerning Afghanistan. Iraq is lost since long, Afghanistan's chances have diminished so far like never before in the past 6 years. Let's try to save there what is left to be saved. Even that already is a highly uncretain issue. Taleban cannot be defeated militarily, they will just keep on coming, for decades if needed, and the better part of the civil population is so desillusionised that they are more or less hostile towards the foreign troops now. It was not always like that. One did not read the signs in time, and ignored them. The mess today is the result.