GWX-destroyers spot me anywhere???
 

Hi all, I really need some advice please. I´m on my second patrol in Oct. 1940 in a VIIc and I tried to shadow and sneak into a convoy, now this is what happened:

Even though I was only at 32x time acceleration, the very moment I get the "ship spotted" message a corvette that I could hardly make out started firing at me! This happened to me several times. (Please note that I don´t use the 16km atmosphere mod, and please also note that the watchcrew bar is all green).

Then I tried getting near the convoy without using any acceleration. Again, after my watchcrew spotted a corvette, I didn´t even have the time to decide on diving or not or changing course, because I was immediately detected. This was especially a problem at dawn in light fog, because it seemed the destoyers just always knew where I was and I didn´t have much time to react.

So in the end it was a very frustrating experience, I was always detected, I outran the corvette or dived, then had to catch up with the convoy, all in all it took me several hours realtime and 36 hours gametime. I had no chance to even get near to a merchant (in the end I just sat down at 20m and waited for them to come, I even could sink some tonnage, and I even got away with it...

So what´s the secret? In GW 1.1a I could sneak into convoys and outmanoveur destroyers, which was both realistic and much fun. Now it seems I´m not able to spot a destroyer without being spotted myself at once. Is radar already involved??? In Oct. 1940??????

Please help, thanks in advance

AS

P.S. The reason I don´t use the 16km mod is that I get a flickering horizon sometimes and my watchcrew spots ships at 15.000km in the middle of a pitch black night, which doesn´t seem right.

From reading the post, I have the impression you are running surfaced (ships spotted msg) at dawn. Doesn't sound to me like a good idea. Visual detection on warships is better than your own visual detection, specially if you give them a high profile.

Well, If u were me Ill take out the escorts first that way U will get as much kills as u can. The way I did it is while Im attackin a convoy in BF-somethang a Black Swan detected me, I dive to periscope depth than go to TDC and set my torp depth to between 3 to 4 meters than I put fast if Im usin a T1 or just slow when I usin a TII and wit mag pistol on when the Black Swan come about between 700-800 meters then I fired the torp and score a hit everytime an escorts comes it only work if the escort is bearing 0 in front of ur boat and doesnt turn but if it starts to turn than fired a second torp for a hit if the first one missed. And sry if Im not makin any sense or u dont get it.

I done that when I was about like 50kms away from me then I got detected so what is goin on? I keep gettin hunt down but I always escaped(except for my two others I died on it).

It depends on which year but I would say they've picked you up on radar.

Excuse me, but "take out the escorts first" is really arcade crap and doesn´t belong here. :damn:

It is not true that destroyers could spot a U-Boat before the U-Boat could spot them. It was common practice to shadow a convoy for hours, sometimes for DAYS, because this was the way the wolfpack worked: one U-Boat shadowing, leading the others to the convoy. It was no problem for U-Boats to shadow convoys without being seen.

Thanks for your replies anyway.

Cheers, AS

@ AS

I don't know the time of day that your were 'shadowing' this convoy or your relative position.

So far, I have had great success with following the convoy's/escorts from a safe distance behind them during the day. Then, at dusk, I would move into an attack position.

It has been shown that the excorts/DD's visual capabilities are greatly reduced at night. In fact I have been as close as 1000-700m (decks awash) at night. This is provided that you have observed the escorts patrol/route patterns and picked the correct spot/course to make your approach on.

It's not easy but it is do-able.

MY fault but it worked so u can get some kills wit no escorts huntin u.

Well, I used to use this tactice in unmodded versions & NYGM & GW, with limited success (appox. 65% success)

But now, the DD got to become very smart and it can even detect me when I attempt to get into a convoy at low speed, and at periscope depth.

The covertte is far less smart. This tactice can be employed as a countermeasure for coverttes, but never destroyers and BLACK SWAN, that stuff always proves lethal for U-boats

I am getting impatient as my career ends very early with little ships sunk...
Planning to get back to GW 1.1a

Prehaps that's why SH4 is pacific campaign... The difficulty of Atlantic war is much greater and this could drive customers (who are only interesting in arcade mode play) away

I always await the convoy from a position ahead of it if possible. As you have already realised the chances of detection by them especially whilst you are surfaced are high to say the least.
I try to sus out their search pattern in advance and skirt around them during the day/night in preparation for a dawn/dusk attack.
The only time I'll approach them on the surface is at night and even then I'm 'decks awash'
The escorts in GWX IMO are the challenge this games been missing for so long :up:

Imo the key points to a sucessful night surface attack are

1 decks awash.
2 slowest speed feasible.
3 well timed attack.
4. high seas
5 a dark night

as you have no control over 4 and 5 night surface attacks are not always feasible, nor should they be.

HB

@AS

I can honestly say I do not have destroyers detecting me at night. (1941) I do not run at the convoy during the day at all. Night time is the right time. I shadow waaaayyyy off. General course heading and lay my course to intercept at night. If I'm so lucky to get in the path of a convoy during the day, it is all done submerged.

Night time attack I can get within 500m of a destroyer if the weather is not the greatest. Placid waters not so close. Maybe 1000m off!

The warships are not super-uber. They are very real IMHO.

Convoys can be pentetrated and dispatched in GWX. I toy with them all the time. I find the side that the warships are not on:up: Send out all the torps I can and dive away. Resume the shadowing from far away! Remember, you really are not going to set off torpedos and blast around a convoy loading more....just did not happen. Working the convoy can take days:yep:

Good advice here.

HB

Let´s see...

1) The destroyers watch crew was positioned higher than the uboat´s, making them see farther.
2) Destroyers optics were superior compared to the binoculars in uboat.
3) Sea is blueish, your sub´s wake is bright white, it sticks out like an flashlight in a dark room.

:up:

All true and for crying out loud the aircraft could spot you 10 miles off!!!! Ask the CVE pilots!!!

All true in theory, but as AS said, submarines did indeed shadow convoys for hours without being spotted.

1) The destroyers' lookouts being higher does indeed mean they can see farther, but on any less-than-perfect day the submarine is a grey blob in a grey sea, while the surface ships' masts are outlined by the horizon.

2) The only superior optics are in the fire-control rangefinders. The lookouts binoculars are exactly the same.

3) Only on a perfect sunny day. In any kind of overcast it's grey-on-grey.

The fact was that a smaller ship almost always spots a bigger ship first.

Yes, they shadowed for days but the operative word here is shadowed....so far out you see the smoke and maybe the tip of the mast. You are in the shadows!!! They kept that distance. You are not going to sit 5000m off and not expect to be seen.
Sometimes I just lay the course and get so far away that there is not chance of me or them seeing me.

True. In previous sims I always submerged at around 5000 metres/yards. I didn't like it in NYGM when they spotted me at 7000, but that's really only 3-1/2 miles. Staying out at 10km is probably a good idea.

This is where bad weather becomes your friend. You can get close in daylight very easily. I love bad weather...especially around a convoy...night time:up: Man, when the soup is thick it is the best time to dip in your spoon for the big chucks;)

You beat me to it. You don't actually have to be within visual range to shadow a convoy. As long as you can keep the smoke on the horizon in sight, or follow the convoy wake itself* (that can last for hours; it's how pilots often found convoys, after all:spot wake turbulence and 'back-trail' it). The shadower could even submerge now and then to get readings on the convoy position.

The key point to remaining 'hidden' is to stay far enough out that your much smaller profile remains blended into the overall 'scenery'. You do have several advantages at that point: your diesel exhaust plumes are a lot less visible than the funnel exhaust of merchants and most warships, you sit a lot lower to the surface than most warships and merchants, you're not kicking up a wake trail to the same degree as they do (although you do make a wake, no mistake about that!).

The most telling point is this: don't throw away your biggest advantage, and that's while you've spotted them, they haven't yet spotted you. Sailor Steve is correct in that your lookouts, and theirs, start off with fairly equal optical equipment (binoculars). But if the escorts suspect a contact, they'll quickly bring to bearing the much higher powered fire-control ones in order to verify that suspicion, and those certainly will outperform you.

You truly have to be sneaky and cunning to outfox those hunters. As determined as you are to sink his ships, he is just as determined to protect them and sink you. Keep in mind everything that could betray your presence to him: your range/distance, your profile to him, whether it's day or night, whether there is a moon or not, whether it's overcast or not, the sea conditions, the weather conditions, your speed, your depth (ex. fully surfaced versus deck awash). . . maximize your advantages, minimize or eliminate your weaknesses, and you'll have a lot better success at both shadowing and intercepting escorted convoys.

*although that isn't something you can do in the game, alas