China Gets a Carrier...And Su-33's
 

http://www.sinodefence.com/news/2006/news06-10-24.asp
Well, it looks like this all but makes it official, the Chinese are definately getting into the tailhook business. The ex-varyag is currently being refitted to become China's first aircraft carrier and now they're buying some very capable aircraft to operate from their new birdfarm.

Sorry:oops: Somehow I accidentally started two threads. Could the mods please delete this one, thanks.:damn:

That huge rusting piece of floating steel is getting operational? Man, I sure wouldn't want to serve on it.....A hard landing SU-33 would problably put holes in the flight deck:lol: ....... It's like 30 years old, a pushover sent to china by USSR (Russia).

With the overhaul it's going through I doubt it will be very rusty anymore. More important, I think the Chinese are viewing Varyag as a stepping stone to a bigger, better fleet of indigenously designed flattops.

Varyag pierside.

Just NNW of the "default" location you'll see some blue buildings next to the water. There she is just north of them.

Rust.

Um...I hate to nitpick here, but even if he is 30 years old, he's (the Russians refer to their ships in the masculine) still a decent carrier, and he's bigger than many of the ones European nations have these days. Just because he's 30+ years old doesn't mean he's toothless.

Also consider that Kitty Hawk was launched in 1960, making her 46 years old, the Enterprise was launched in 1961, making her 45, and JFK was launched in 1967, making her 40. Nimitz was launched in 1974, making her 32 years old. I wouldn't consider any of these carriers a "pushover" in any sense of the world.

I'm thinking it takes a lot more than buying an aircraft carrier and 50 airplanes to make a viable threat. Ask the US Navy what it takes to put a carrier to sea as a viable fighting force.

I wonder if the Ukrainians will demandcompansation for breech of contract, as they said it would be turned into a casino.

It will need some engines to be installes as the Ukrainians removed them before handing the ship over. I don't think a rubber band attached to the propeller count's as an engine!:lol:

Actually, it is not a very good carrier. Because of the lack of a catapult, only the good low-speed performance of the Su-33K and MiG-29K allows it to be a CTOL carrier (the plane makes up for the carrier). The French carriers carry a similar number of aircraft on >20000t less displacement. Yes, part of that is because of its requirement to be a cruiser as well, but it doesn't quite have enough defensive armament to "go it alone" with only its point defence suite, so it'd need escorts just as much as a full-time carrier, and the SS-N-19 missiles were apparently placed in a way that blocked off further extension of the hangar, limiting the space available.

The varyag is acctualy not 30 years old nearing it but hasnt hit it yet, the kuznetsov class are 60,000 tonne air craft carrying cruisers, but the chinese let her get in a bit of a state she needs four engines and four propellors.

Her SS-N-19 missiles can be taken out and hanger increased but as a first carrier well its a good one seeing as america started off with less and built up to what it is.

The enterprise was built in 1961 so your trying to say any carrier older than 30 is not worth anything i think that puts about 6 american carriers out of use then.

That. Is. C-R-A-Z-Y. It doesn't have a catapult? Woah, dude. That totally brings back memories of Doolittle's Raiders.

It's entirely possible they might "retrofit" some low power pistons on there. The system isn't all that complex, but it needs it's own boiler, and the water-brake and piston require some tight tolerances to keep the steam losses minimal.

About the only "country" China will invade is Taiwan, and they're not going to do it haphazardly. They know their economy will take a gigantic flying flop if they do it militarily.

Problem is, CHina is not as interested in the US anymore and I get the sense they think they can take the economic hit if they do invade Taiwan. +, there military is designed not to stop but to slow the US down so that a Taiwan invasion would be successful and completed by the time the US got to its shores. Chinese leaders have put much thought into Taiwan, and the Taiwan invasion is only a matter of time.

-S

My bet is that the Chinese are building their own carrier somewhere, maybe in different locations in modular form. I know people make fun of Russian and Chinese equipment but theyare no fools. In fact I bet quality wise the chinese might be quite good. I have read that license built Su-27s made in China are of better quality than Russian ones.

i thought the Chinese were simply studying the overall design to build there own and retrofit that ship as a trainer. makes more sense then pushing it into a combat status after years of neglect and so much missing equipment.

but its going to be another decade until the UK gets its 65,000t CVf's leaving us with the invincible's that are getting close to 30 years old, but they are (hopefully) better maintained.

I read something similar in the Taiwanese press, but I also read they have problems with handling the engines. My general impression is that the "simple" parts they can do quite well (just like cheap Chinese toys) compared to the Russians, who seem to take the philosophy that if a crude technique is adequate for an area, that's precisely the technique to be applied, but they still have problems with the complex.

Yeah, I reckon Xabba's right, they may put this bucket of bolts to sea, if only to study the way it moves and what goes wrong on it, to prevent their own carrier from having the same problems. Chances are the Western powers will kick up a fair fuss and closely watch this carrier, and then probably only notice the other carrier at the last minute. These are the same guys that totally flatfooted the US with their last class of submarine they built. Now I know a carrier is somewhat bigger...but there are still ways... ;)

Well, it is not that the "aircraft carrying cruiser" is necessarily a bad idea, just that it was IMHO poorly implemented with Kuznetsov, leaving it a poorly defended cruiser and inefficient carrier for its mass.

The Kiev actually was truer to that doctrine in many ways - it had guns, torpedoes and an area defence SAM system as well as SSMs. If not for those crap Forgers... a case of plane bringing down carrier.

The -700s can stay - they are part of the doctrine, just move them more to the side so they don't block the extension of the hangar.

What the Kuznetsov really needs to achieve its original objective, however, is an area SAM system. Why didn't they just stuff a SA-N-6 (preferably the newer 48N6 variant) along with the SA-N-9 system...

The kuznetsov was origional built as the fifth kirov the design was changed to carrier during constion.

which is never a recipe for success. the military world should have learnt by now once you arrange something stick to it.

changing plans delayed the eurofighter, split the horizon destroyer group (which was the reason for the creation of the type 45's) and did much more.