Malaysian Airlines MH317
 

Another Malaysian tragedy :nope:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856

actually it's just 17

FlightAware ADS-B data tracked it all the way until about a minute before shootdown

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17

This is from Carl Bildt the Swedish Foreign Minister saying to a Swedish Newspaper

" If it is true, then it is "so terrible as it may be, that the passenger aircraft has been shot down."

He believes that it will have very far-reaching consequences if the data on the planet really have been shot down by Ukrainian separatists is correct.

- Not just for the separatists, but also for those who ensure that the separatists get this type of weapon. There are reports that Russia has provided the group with advanced anti-aircraft missiles, more advanced than we have in Sweden.

Foreign Minister Bildt also writes on Twitter that there are signs that Russia has supplied separatists in Ukraine with advanced anti-aircraft missiles."

Markus

could anyone translate this?
https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...32194311_n.jpg

Aaaaaaaaaaand the rumour-mill starts.

Russian gloating on social media about shooting down Ukrainian 'cargo' plane, all comments suddenly removed.

Why are civvy airlines routing flights over a such a volatile region?

This was my first thought as well. I hate it when security-related changes are made after tragedy strikes.

Then again, might be too early to determine exactly the cause of the crash. In any case, a real shame and great tragedy for everyone involved.

Maybe because nobody expected them to be idiotic enough to randomly shoot at planes flying over their airspace without proper radar confirmation...? Though, one would think with all of the precautions being taken lately, it would be better to be cautious.

Well, whatever the reason, or whoever it was if a launch is confirmed, it seems that it would be insane and almost inconceivable for it to be a Ukrainian launch, because the rebels don't actually have airplanes....that I know of. But then there will be the false flag spin as well.

I've read on some other forums that the rebels have some SU-25s at their disposal. Haven't seen anything that confirms this tho.

Rumour has it that it was a Buk SAM launcher. both Ukraine and Russia use them as frontline launchers, it's unknown if the Russian separatists operate any, although it's thought that they use Manpads which wouldn't have the range to reach the aircraft at 33,000 ft.

So it's either a Russian, Ukrainian or pro-Russian missile that's responsible for this. It's alledged that the US has satellites that can ID the IR signature of a SAM launch, so they might be able to shed some light on the owner of the missile...alternatively it's entirely possible that an aircraft shot it down with an air-to-air missile, which would put it out of the fault of the pro-Russian separatists.

Shouldn't we wait until the Ukrainian NSTB have made a report of what made this plane crash.

It's nothing more than speculation.

I'll wait and so does the Western politicians

Markus

Well, the FDR has been found and allegedly being sent to Moscow...

Now the rumours of possible tampering will begin :)

Now I write with a suspicious mind

Is that a smart move to make? The Russian could make this FDR "disappear"
(if it was shot down by separatist using an advanced Russian SAM-system)

Wouldn't it have been better to hand it over to a third party...let say Switzerland

Markus

I wonder if the truth will come out, whatever it is.
Could as well be a hull crack, engine failure or electrical problem, would not be the first time with the 777.
But we should at least wait for the official saying, upon which then all agree :-?

Agree lets wait

Markus

Well, it was (again allegedly) pro-Russian forces that found it, so they're not going to send it to Kiev. If Moscow makes it disappear then it will just make itself look guilty. No, Moscow will play ball, and if it is discovered that it was shot down by a Buk SAM then it will claim that the Ukrainians shot it down, and the Ukraine will claim that it was Russia or Russian equipment given to the pro-Russian forces, and so on and so forth.
Of course, as Jim has correctly pointed out, there will be allegations against Moscow of tampering with the FDR (if, and I stress IF, the reports that it has been sent to Moscow are true) and lots of finger pointing but evidence will be harder to come by.

Most likely shot-down, most likely by separatists, most likely via BUK launchers conquered from Ukrainian forces.

Why flight routes over a shooting-war region are not changed, to save some drops of fuel, is beyond me. After yesterday's killing of an Ukrainian SU-25 at the latest - which flew at several thousand meters - this should have become a most obvious and natural step.

FYI, the Buk is better known ander the NATO-code SA-11 Gadfly. It is operated by Russian and Ukrainian forces as well. the system can track and fioght targets at altitudes between 100m and max. 22km, typical engagement ranges are 10-20 km, maximum tracking range around 35 km. The system was fielded in the mid-60s, later versions were produced until the late 90s.

Ukrainians intercepted a transmission between GRU officers and separatists confirming that it was the separatists who shot the plane down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=V5E8kDo2n6g

@ Skybird

"conquered from Ukrainian forces"

This was new to me

I have so far heard that they got this SAM-system from the Russian

Markus