It's still not sure he (Jesus) ever lived.


Good reading for both, a-theist and theist. ;)

http://www.jesuspuzzle.com/

and:
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...suspuzzle.html

Something major in Sailor Steve's life.....:hmm:
Ahh! Reality! ;)

Problem is, we all know who's right and we both know reality had nothing to do with it.

If people were smart, they would realize we are not here by accident.

-S

I agree!
You are right and reality has nothing to do with it.

If there was no God that created us, there must've been a big accident?

Now that I think of it, looking at us humans (and religious fanatics in particular) it makes more and more sense to me that something went terribly wrong all those years ago....

Heh, that was pretty funny. :rotfl:

:rotfl:

Kids, I think it's time for a song. Ready?

Gimme that old time religion!
Gimme that old time religion!
Gimme that old time religion!
It's good enough for me!

It was good for Old Jonah!
It was good for Old Jonah!
It was good for Old Jonah,
And it's good enough for me!

:rotfl:

I try to answer all three question one by one. Again, feel free to reveal the flaws within them. I'll try my best to eliminate them but sometimes it is inevitable.

Q: Could you give an example of an atheist using a religious definition of morality?
A: I don't think I can give one, as you don't believe in the religious definition unless you are a believer, but the definition of morality is similiar between religious people and atheists, as what skybird has pointed out, to evade pain and sufferings

Q: How do you think those who have never been exposed to a moralizing religion at all gain their moral behavior?
A: I'm afraid your assumption may have some flaws. Some people who have never been exposed to a moralizing religion may not have a moral behavoir. For example, the monkey boy, John Ssabunnya, (info here: http://www.occultopedia.com/j/john_ssabunnya.htm) did not received any religious education due to his little age when he escaped into the jungle. When he was found, he ate in an errectric way. He did not wear clothes. He had long finger nails and infested with fleas. These are contradictory to the "moral behavoir" that we believe in today

Q: And finally, how can the moral guidance from religion be shown to be correct.
A: Again, quoting from skybird's article --- if it can let people evade pain, sufferings and to become happy. If the teachings matches these citerias then it can be shown to be correct

(Quoting from skybird's article has one fundermental flaw --- it reveals that I start to accept skybird's definition. However, I still maintain my pro-religion stance)

(edited because I found that I didn't finish this article as I post it)

(just proof that I didn't edit the article above AFTER someone post something in reply to it). Sorry for it

This thread demands a hearty injection of Friedrich Nietzsche, maybe The Gay Science and Thus Spoke Zarathustra, and someone better read than I to provide it!

There are many successful moral and ethical approaches that don't bother with even a passing reference to religion. Models like utilitarianism or Kantian ethics and categorical imperatives have existed for hundreds of years and orient themselves towards the intrinsic values of human beings and their happiness. That they provide satisfactory guidance in all but the most abstract and unlikely hypotheticals should be reason itself to deny the idea that atheism is "morally bankrupt."

Hm, and I had Nietzsche's "The Anti-Christ" on my mind. :lol:

Possibly, but nothing I can think of. I simply have come to question everything, and look for evidence, and have yet been able to find none.

That is why I like talking to you. You can still have a reasonable conversation, and an objective one.[/quote]
But (and no offense is intended, but I have to be honest), I came into this thread accusing you of the same lack of reason and objectivity. I love discussing the issues, but again I've come to question everything I see, including my own motives and knowlege. I'm no longer a devout believer simply because I've seen no real evidence that would cause me to believe that doesn't stem from the belief itself. But I'm also not a true atheist for the simpe reason that, though I consider it a trite and somewhat lame retort, "You can't prove there isn't a God either!" is still basically true. I can't place my faith in something I can't prove, and that includes nonexistence as well.

"God does not roll dice..." Albert Einstein:know:

Excellent links! I especially like the logic in the second one.:sunny:

I must say, Doherty's way of explaining Paul was a revelation for me.:yep: