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People fight for bad causes all the time. I sure many fell for the propaganda and many got trapped into a cause they had no choice but to fight for. I think most of us would agree the men that fought were brave and heroic, but they still fought for a Nazi system. I'm sure the masses doing the fighting didn't have a clue how evil the system was. However, had Germany won the war, I'm sure they would've enjoyed the spoils and victory with no complaint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by areo16 (Post 2144269)

Again, this really isn't saying anything. It just looks like a juvenile temper tantrum.

I'll help you out. Perhaps you forgot my original statement:

[I]"In the last days of the war leading members of the military became the leaders of the government and asked for peace."

Sure they did, they had no choice and were given terms of unconditional surrender which they accepted.

So what...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead (Post 2144271)

So what...

That's what I thought. :hmmm:

Either way, Tribesman has gone rouge over it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by areo16 (Post 2144259)

I'm still strongly convinced by the hypothesis that the maturity of one's post projects the true age of the poster.

:hmmm:

Does that count for signatures as well?
http://gyazo.com/efd19bd1a22e1402fc418e6efa03a325.png

And you asked twice to not being called a troll?
For this crap you should get an extra avatar and title...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner (Post 2144273)

Sounds like a reasonable signature. :hmmm:

Cybermat47 said it. Complain to Cybermat47 about it. It's not my fault I just repost the news!
:nope:

Quote:

Originally Posted by areo16 (Post 2144275)

Sounds like a reasonable signature. :hmmm:

Cybermat47 said it. Complain to Cybermat47 about it. It's not my fault I just repost the news!
:nope:

So besides getting him wrong on purpose to suit your crusade, you even need to wear this as a sig?

I was right after all, you are a troll.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner (Post 2144276)

So besides getting him wrong on purpose

How do you mean by this? That is a word-for-word quote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 2144268)

Just pointing it out as his own statement seems to rubbish the denials he made.

Not really
Count three, war crimes, guilty
Count four, crimes against humanity, guilty.
Both counts in relation to Reichsminister Speer covered much more of his work than just the slave labour. Though Four mainly focused on the slave labour

"The evidence introduced against Speer under Counts Three and Four relates entirely to his participation in the slave labour programme." (emphasis mine)
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/judspeer.asp

Count Three included:

A) MURDER AND ILL-TREATMENT OF CIVILIAN POPULATIONS OF OR IN OCCUPIED TERRITORY AND ON THE HIGH SEAS

Was Speer involved in that? Almost certainly not.

B) DEPORTATION FOR SLAVE LABOR AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES OF THE CIVILIAN POPULATIONS OF AND IN OCCUPIED TERRITORIES

Definitely.

C) MURDER AND ILL-TREATMENT OF PRISONERS OF WAR, AND OF OTHER MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE COUNTRIES WITH WHOM GERMANY WAS AT WAR, AND OF PERSONS ON THE HIGH SEAS

Was Speer involved in that? Seemingly not.

D) KILLING OF HOSTAGES

Was Speer involved in that? Almost certainly not?

E) PLUNDER OF PUBLIC AND PRIVATE PROPERTY

Was Speer involved in that? I don't know.

F) THE EXACTION OF COLLECTIVE PENALTIES

Was Speer involved in that? I don't know.

G) WANTON DESTRUCTION OF CITIES, TOWNS, AND VILLAGES AND DEVASTATION NOT JUSTIFIED BY MILITARY NECESSITY

Was Speer involved in that? Seemingly not.

(H) CONSCRIPTION OF CIVILIAN LABOR

Yes.

I) FORCING CIVILIANS OF OCCUPIED TERRITORIES TO SWEAR ALLEGIANCE TO A HOSTILE POWER

Was Speer involved in that? Possibly.

J) GERMANIZATION OF OCCUPIED TERRITORIES

Possibly. I'm not sure.

The point is that even under Charge Number Three Speer was only accused of crimes directly related to the slave labor. Otherwise he likely would have been executed along with the others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by areo16 (Post 2144269)

Again, this really isn't saying anything. It just looks like a juvenile temper tantrum.

I'll help you out. Perhaps you forgot my original statement:

"In the last days of the war leading members of the military became the leaders of the government and asked for peace."

If anything, your statements give credit to mine because you can't seem to put anything together that's even eligible. The attempts to counter my original statement are amateurish at best, creating the perception that there really isn't any credible counter-argument in the first place.
:nope:

Your trolling is pathetic:haha:
The statement gives no credit to you as the leading Nazis in power at the end of the war were all in power as Nazis throughout the war and before.
It was from start to finish a Nazi regime, and the submarine built by the slave labour was a Nazi submarine, it is simply undeniable.
You really have no point.
Which raises the question Wastegate, under how many different names have you come back to this forum simply to troll?

Quote:

That's what I thought. :hmmm:

Problems with English again?:rotfl2:

Sailor Steve.
Those you missed
A. yes
C. yes
D. yes
E. yes
F. yes
You seem to be neglecting the scope of his ministry and the sheer numbers of concentration camps it utilised.
Though E is outside of that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 2144287)

Sailor Steve.
Those you missed
A. yes
C. yes
D. yes
E. yes
F. yes

I want to see proof for every one. Saying "yes" doesn't make it fact.

:nope:

Quote:

I want to see proof for everyone. Saying "yes" doesn't make it fact.

Since you have taken just one day in one single topic to show yourself as having absolutely no credibility, what you want is irrelevant:har:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 2144287)

If all those were true Speer would have been executed along with the rest of them. I at least went to the trouble of looking something up. We've reached a point where you need to start actually showing things. But then you rarely do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 2144285)

Your trolling is pathetic:haha:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 2144295)

Since you have taken just one day in one single topic to show yourself as having absolutely no credibility, what you want is irrelevant:har:

I've asked you once to play nice. This is getting dangerously near the edge.

Quote:

Which raises the question Wastegate, under how many different names have you come back to this forum simply to troll?

Do you have proof of this allegation? If so, please show it. If not, mention it again at your own peril.

Quote:

If all those were true Speer would have been executed along with the rest of them.

What rest of them?
How many in that particular trial got the death penalty(not counting those who died or those aquitted) ?

Quote:

I at least went to the trouble of looking something up.

Yep, Yale is handy

So where do you want to start?
(A)?
where exactly did these civilian slaves come from?
Though of course that doesn't count the german slaves as they would be under the persecution murder and mistreatment on grounds of religion politics or ethnicity bit.
(C)?
How many POWs were used as slaves?

(D)?
take just mittlewerke or the atlantic wall, how many reprisal murders were there for "sabotage"?

(F)?
Collective? so if for example Luxembourg as an occupied territory is forced to hand over 100,000 slaves is that not a collective penalty?

As for (E)? well that started in Czechoslovakia and speers ministry carried on doing it throughout the war.

If you want to get really into it on the depths on Nazi depravity how many of his Wehrwitschaftsfuhrers engaged in human experimentation in the concentration camps while working on Sheers ministries projects