Again, why is it the most likely?

And right now you're playing in a sandbox with experienced adults, some of whom were having this same discussion before you were born. It's one of the hazards of the internet.

There are things you can't say in your current environment. Here we can say them. And more importantly, think them. Reason is a learned habit, and not that many adults know how to use it. Unless you question everything you run the danger of accepting anything. By "question" I don't mean assume that everything people tell you is wrong; I just mean wonder why. Wonder why they said that. Wonder why they believe that. Nobody knows everything, and to my mind the most dangerous people are the ones who assume they know anything at all. If you can't show it with facts, there's always the chance it may not be true.

Ask why. THe world is not black and white.

Hence, my flippant response.

To pigeon hole these sorts of beliefs into yes/no categories will never lead anybody towards the right answer.

Hell, check out my sig, which I've had for multiple decades on multiple forums, as my true answer to your poll.



Absolutism in any form is always wrong.



(Irony?)

I have always believed that atheists and people of religion should treat each other with respect, at the worst at least tolerate each other.

Hating someone because they do or do not believe in religion is as stupid as hating someone for not believing chocolate chip is the best flavor cookie...

And here I change mine the first of every month. Go figure.


Words to live by. Too bad so few do.

it goes further than religion. My ending statement was simply about your rights. Gay marriage doesnt infringe on your rights or endanger anyone so why shouldnt they be allowed to do it? Abortion is the only argument worth arguing for, for which its still the woman's choice.

The argument i have about abortion is what the week limit should be set to. i think it should be set to around 15-17 weeks when the fetus develops a brain that has partitioned areas for higher function indicative of a human. Because before that point, the fetus possess common organs found in most every mammal, such as the heart and liver, many of which arent specific to humans. Its the woman's body and her choice up until the fetus inside of her begins to develop brain function. That is when i believe abortion should become not possible, except in cases of inbreeding/rape in which the fetus might develop crippling diseases.


Religion or no, limiting someone's right to do something that isnt infringing o yours is pretty nonsensical to me.

Behaving respectfully - not submissive or defensive! - towards the other in a normal social interaction, is what we call politeness. And that is okay. As a matter of fact, with most strangers you and me interact in daily life, we simply do not know whether he/she thinks religious or atheistic, and is a fanatic on it or not. Politeness it is, then.

Demanding to pay respect to the other' ideology and ideological background just because it claims that and wants it so, is something very different.

And tolerance, while it works in most cases to tolerate the ordinary differences between yourself and your neighbour, differences can be not just small, but also big, decisive and indeed can make a serious difference regarding what shape the world is both have to live in. So it is a desirable ideal to have situations only where one can tolerate each other, but one needs to stay aware that differences can become such that mutual tolerance can only be had at too high costs, or in extreme: self-denial of the one on behalfg of the other. Tolerance works often - but not always. It must accept limits.

It is for the people doing the choosing.

Remember people trying to claim it was an attack on the people and on religion:doh:


an intolerant fundamentalist zealot of the militant atheist flavour? never:rotfl2:

Absolutely

I'm not getting into the abortion or gay rights arguments. I just pointed out that objections to those issues are often cast as a religious issue and it is done to marginalize the opposition.

Any links to some atheist anti abortion campaigns? maybe some atheist anti gay marriage ones for good measure?

Sure. Here's one:

http://www.pointofinquiry.org/jen_ro...inst_abortion/

http://www.allourlives.org/

Thanks.

So your first isn't wanting abortions banned and the second is mainly about disabled rights and they say they are against abortion being illegal.

She is the co-founder of All Our Lives(second link). All I can say is she is campaigning against abortion and is atheist. Personally, it looks to me, they really do not know what they want. :88)

"
What is your stand on abortion and the law?

Our members hold a range of views on this subject. We focus instead on something so often neglected even though it is deeply decisive: increasing women***8217;s alternatives in pregnancy prevention and in getting through difficult pregnancies and beyond. Expanding women***8217;s nonviolent choices in all countries is urgently necessary, whatever the legal status of abortion in any particular nation. This is the surest way to promote respect for the lives of both women and children, unborn and already born.
That much said, we do oppose laws and practices that we believe to criminalize woman who seek or have abortions, or who engage in other actions such as substance use/abuse or suicidal behavior that can be harmful to their unborn children. Please learn more here and here about our rationale and our proposed alternatives to such laws."



Could be worse, it could have been the anarchists against abortion who don't really know if they do really know if they can be bothered to know what they want"

That is a very good summation of the argument/problem. Especially the false opposition part. As a Christian I see absolutely no conflict between science and faith. I believe in a Creator and science is explaining and revealing that creation. And very well if I may say so. Of course there are some controversial issues that cause heated debate but both sides seem to be jumping to conclusions. There is still along way to go before science says "Okay we're done."

Whether there is a God or not does not change the scientific data.

I have often marvelled at the irrational fear that each side has for the others opinion.

And I would say that that is one of the main reasons for this fear.