The SH series is like one of your hot ex-girlfriend you broke up with and who wants to get back together. You know she has faults and you should stay away, but you just..can't..resist...:damn:

Don't resist, go with the flow...:arrgh!:




p.s. - does that mean the Boycott is over?...:()1:

...well, when I see the girls of my graduation class nowadays (20 years later) to resist is a very minor problem....:D

But you be correct....We all burn our fingers with this serie but we do not learn....but we also without an alternative...

like Homer when Lisa for a school project put a electric trap on the Donouts...

bzzz Doh! bzzz Doh! bzzz Doh!

;)

Andreas

:haha::rotfl2:

:up:

:har: What contents? Two flimsy pieces of paper, one being your CD key and the other being all the warranty crap? They couldn't even be bothered to print a manual.

:har: Yeah, I've done that twice with previous girlfriends but then never did it again. I can actually learn from my mistakes! :D Now I'm married and it's all a moot issue anyway.

And no, for me, the boycott is not over. I stick to my word. :up:

*-------*
That's the sound of me not defending the game. You don't have to convinve me the game is beneath the standards we're used to from Ubisoft Romania.



Go ahead :) Takes more than admitting I am wrong to embarrass me. I know I'm not always right, I'm perfectly fine with admitting when I make a mistake. Of course, you can get the game at any store today, so you're too late to prove anything :O:

And I think if you are honest you might agree that some of the people who clicked "the game is bad" did so even though they had not actually gotten the game yet.


Let's put it this way; when the poll first went up, and several others who had expressed a very negative opinion of the game voted "Bad" right away. None of these guys had mentioned playing the game in other threads.... :hmmm: 2 + 2.... yeah, 4, that's it.

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat
I'm surprised you rushed out to buy it so quickly...
Originally Posted by Heretic... especially after leaving a trail of threads saying you wouldn't buy it.

Exactly! If I ever need an attorney, I'm speaking with Heretic first.

This poll is utterly useless, as Hitman suggested, time for a new poll where you stand behind your vote, and maybe we can get a better idea of what people with the game, think about the game.

I haven't bought the game yet, I'm still on hold, for several reasons, both game related, and, this is the primary reason, for real life reasons, so I haven't voted for this, but the result interests me of course, and I would have loved to see who voted what. A long time forum members vote is more convincing to me than that of a newbie - no offence. :03:

I have to agree with Neal on this point. Whats strange is that its in everyone's best interest that this game be a winner. For the future of PC simulation, this should be obvious. Remember SH3 in its original form was quite raw when compared to the game as it exists now thanks to this community. So be honest in your appraisal and try to differentiate between those disappointments that will eventually be modded and those that are more inherent in the sh5 engine.

Some people's sense of entitlement is amazing. Seriously, where does this level of spoiled-ness come from? I mean, I understand that some expectations are high on a game like this. But when is everything met? Honestly, even if the devs weren't limited by resources and time... I suspect the level of cynicism would be the same. Because for some people nothing is enough.

I think criticism is always due, but keep it realistic. Really, what are you basing your expectations on? Has there been a game that met them before?

Rationally speaking, this is still the best WWII subsim available. You don't have to go far to find that. It's just that it's not your dream subsim and I think all of us will have to accept that.

Again, I think problems ought to be criticised. But give yourself a reality-check before posting it - ask yourself if something like that is even fair to air out on a public forum. I find that many of the comments here are by people who have far, far too much entitlement that they get from wearing the imaginary badge of "hardcore subsimmer". What did you do to earn that right, anyway? Pay 50 bucks? Spend a while playing old subsims? Is that really fair?

Game design is a business that is sadly trapped between technological limits, funding limits, and more than a little corporate politics. In between those things you will NEVER get your ideal game. So try to keep a realistic perspective on the real game that is now out and, I must say, quite playable.

And finally, remember one thing: at the end of the day, this is JUST A GAME. It's not an advanced virtual reality of your dreams. Sorry, we don't quite live in a cyberpunk future yet.

I believe that we tend to rush things a bit. The game is arguably ''green'' therefore opinions are likely to be based more on the excitement of playing a new game and less on a ''solid'' or mature (as opposed to ''green'') point of view. Thus, what is the meaning of this poll?

I'd rather see a poll with the following options:

• '' I'm satisfied and i will certainly enjoy playing it ''
• '' I'm not satisfied. ''

In both cases voters should feel obliged to justify their opinions. This way everyone will be able to know what's in other peoples' head.
The poll should take place a month from now.
Also, it would be nice to make a poll where voters are obliged to post their opinion first and vote afterwards. This way we would know for sure...

I think that's pretty fair given the criticism SH5 has taken due to the DRM thing ; it' s easier for somebody to vote ''don't like it'' after the anti-DRM campaign without giving it a second thought. Some of the voters may not even have bought the game yet!

Anyway... patience, as always.:-?

CCIP, the question is "What are high expectations?" Clearly, they are defined by the customer: "to buy or not to buy". So, expectations are individual and determined probably by a huge variety of factors including what other hobbies (games, movies, music, outdoor activities, friends, partying, opera, sports, books etc etc.), family or work are competing with the idea of another game purchase. The new product needs to fulfill some sort of quality standard as to how it rates compared to other activities that also want their share of time.

Now, speaking for me, I played SH3+GWX, which it still remains an awesome combination. Due to work I have little free time to spent, and I have quite a few other hobbies, too. So any new leisure time investment (game, book, movie etc.) better be pretty awesome, and a clear "advancement" over any other such product I have previously owned. It ought to be a new "experience".

For a computer game sequel, that to me means to incorporate all previous features, and add new game ideas/features/mechanics that render it a "novel experience".

For a simulation like SHV, my least expectations would thus be all of SHIII's features, plus something ground-breaking new. This could be the dynamic campaign that affects the outcome of the war; the wolf pack battles; maybe a strategic level at which the player might influence the positioning of wolf packs; etc. etc. Though I like the idea of including a role playing element, I find it rather tangential to the simulation part, and would probably turn it off after a while if I could -- I just don't have infinite time to spent playing, so I would prefer to focus on core parts. Nice to have, but not sufficient for me.

Graphics are for a couple of years already no sufficient reason to buy a new game for me either. When graphics still were 640x480x16 color, clearly any improvement in that was already a major improvement. Nowadays, when I would rate SHIII graphics already 9/10, I find any improvement there does not add to the game mechanics -- though it is nice if, but only if, all other criteria for a "novel experience" are fulfilled! Else I can easily pass on further graphics upgrades for a good simulation.

So I guess, it is game mechanics and features that sells -- for me. Things I can do, influence, control and that have a clear and present effect on the outcome of the game/simulation, and that don't already wear off after looking at the 500th screenshot in the forums...

I agree, and certainly my own ideal wishes are also for a hardcore sim. But I also recognize both the necessity and real value in making the game appeal to non-hardcore users. I wouldn't be here today if I hadn't played Silent Service 2 with my dad as a 9-year-old. And I think it's having to negotiate that balance between different audiences + time/money constraints that have caused several compromises here that the hardcore players will never fully accept. So, mods will have to do.

I just finished a full play-through of 1939-1945 in OM with 100% realism and several realism-oriented house rules, so I know what a hardcore subsim experience is like and why it's good. I realize it'll be a bit before I can get that from SH5. On the other hand some features of SH5 already have me jumping for joy, while the game itself is already fairly enjoyable. For better or worse, the hardcore experience is something that the hardcore community has to take into its' own hands. It's just not marketable enough for ubi. But when you look far enough into the game, past the (sometimes iffy) surface presentation, what you will find is that the devs have done MANY key code changes that will serve us well in the long run and will hugely benefit realism.

Let this game prove itself and keep a reality check on your expectations. That's all I'm saying. By all means, as a die-hard's U-boat game, SHIII+GWX and SHIV+OM are still the benchmarks. But those benchmarks were achieved with probably several times the combined labour and time that it took to develop each of these games (SHIII/IV/V). So I think it's an unfair comparison for an out-of-the box title.

Agreed! I think it starts as being spoiled brats who never wanted for anything in their whole lives, LOL. I've always been amazed at this phenomenon, especially in the free world.

Hold on, now! Vanilla to vanilla, perhaps. But I would argue that vanilla SHV can't come anywhere NEAR SH3 with my mod selection (personally) and that goes for sh4 too. For me anyway, there's just way too much missing. Granted, I do NOT have the game, and have only seen videos and read the posts on subsim. And I'm a sucker for guages and dials and slide rules and whiz wheels and such.

If I had a stronger box, I'd probably get sh5 right now, even knowing its flaws, drm and everything. I just spent $665 to get a compressor replaced in my 2.5 year old fridge. I had a couple of shots of Patron at a club last week with the wife, and it was nearly the price of this game. Gotta keep things in perspective!

And there's nothing wrong with complaining about how horrific a game is, either. But I'd say it would be an ERROR to expect anything near perfection, at least for the price you'd pay for it. If you're that bent out of shape about it, and really, really want it, download a free compiler and get busy coding! Compiler not up to your standards? Write your own! You think I'm kidding! :D

After my first night of playing I vote for: Good but not perfect, though I definately like to play it. Because that about sums it up for me. There are bugs and it needs more polish, so a patch is definitely in order, but I am having a lot of fun with it so far.

Oh of course. Sorry if I came off unclear on that. But I think that it's an unfair comparison for SHIII+GWX/SHIV+OM. But there are already many features in this which will never be in these later-day mods and imho that already at least makes it the most promising subsim to date. Time will only tell if it fulfills it.