You do play SH at work? Pray so that your boss doesn't notice. :shifty:
And I wouldn't say that online save is really a pro. It may be of your convenience, but it's definitely not mine nor probably a lot of people. A pro is something that does benefit the inmense majority of users. This doesn't because it relays on full-time connection, which basically almost noone likes.

Agree 100%

I'm a customer and it benefits me to know that everyone else playing the game is paying for the game, just like me. Satisfaction is a benefit.

Oh please... We're adults and I'm sure we can take care of our own saved game files without relying on Big Brother to do it for us. If Ubisoft really cared about our save games they could have easily made online save an optional feature without turning it into a mandatory feature. The plain truth is that they don't care about our games and saved files, it's just another one of their DRM. It's a way for them to control us, not a 'service' they provide for us. Calling this a service is a shameless propaganda by Ubisoft.

The fact of the matter is that the inconvenience of the new OSP far outweigh the 'benefits' (what benefits?) that brings to the customers. And Ubisoft too will very likely lose as well unless they manage to trick enough people who buy games without reading the requirements first. So it's a lose-lose scenario for both parties.

You can state your own opinions all you want, but unless you can provide concrete reason as to what services the new OSP will bring that isn't possible without it your arguments are moot and pointless.

And if you have a 'crappy' computer with such a high risk of fail, maybe it's your time to move up and adapt to new technology along with the others with poor internet connection. :yeah:

Countless games are related to Ubisoft that means they never had any financial trouble that would've stopped them developing new games....SHV was/is finished in the middle of a financial crisis...that didn't stop them either...I'd like to know what impact piracy had on that company...It's just like the starving actors of Avatar, the latest record breaker..:woot::haha:

You can do online saves without a constant connection. When you save, it can open a connection, upload the file, and close connection.

Nothing is allowed to update files on my computer unless I give it permission. I do not need, or want, something going through my files and changing things without my knowing. Furthermore, automatic updates would be the modders' worst nightmare. If things are constantly getting changed, that means the possibility that mods are going to constantly break. I'm not sure exactly how such a scheme would allow them to put patches together easier. Maybe it would be easier for the users to obtain, but see again my point about automatic updates.

There may be benefits. The only one I can see is that it might stop pirates, for a while. I don't see why that should outweigh the company's responsibility to provide the customer with a usable product.

One, your computer must be REALLY crappy, because I have a less wonderful broadband than you and I've not ever had a computer failure (and if I'm so poor as to not have a 10MB connection, I must be too poor to have a good computer ;) ). Two, as I said, anyone with broadband also has an off-site backup system like carbonite unless they are really dumb anyway—which saves all my save games as it saves everything else on my machines.

In a world where devs make good games to start with (has yet to happen) auto-updates might be a feature. In a world where mods rule (the SH5 devs have rightfully crowed about how SH5 is even MORE moddable, something they themselves consider a feature), streaming little patches is a disaster. I have Steam. Empire Total War updated yesterday automatically (some tiny little thing I didn't notice even DLing) and broke all the mods. Now play is only possible for a few mods with hotfixes. Not a feature since with 100% certainty, any subsim we see will need heavy modding just to reach "acceptable" for anyone but a 13 YO twitch player.

Regardless, there is zero reason this needs to happen DURING PLAY. In fact, most games would not see the update unless the game restarted anyway, so streaming while you play gains you zero over before you play. DLing while you play for later installation is fine, but again, it only requires the net during the period of the DL.

I wasn't prompted by steam yesterday.

BTW, you failed completely to provide ANY pros that require a 100% on net connection.

Saves are not continuous, they are discrete. So for save games the game need only try and connect for XX seconds every hour, or when you save yourself on purpose. If it is set to autosave every 5 minutes, say, and hits a net burp, it could automatically skip that and try again in 5 minutes and not interrupt your play. Note that it could save locally, too, just to be safe.

Streaming updates? So you are playing when it is office hours for the devs, in the middle of an attack, and you need the new update NOW, not the next time you fire up the game? Many updates and mods break save games, BTW. If ANYTHING in the save file is changed it can crash the restored game. Not a feature, frankly.

I welcome a single pro that REQUIRES being online 100% of your gameplay time.

So one of the benefits is auto-updating, hey?

Here's a current example of potential consequences:

I have Empire Total War. The vanilla version has the intellect of an amoeba with a hangover. I decided to d/l a mod for it, and it vastly improved the game. You'll see the mouthpiece of CA claiming they support mods, and how moddable the games are etc etc, but more on that in a sec......

CA decided to release more DLC (d/l crap...oops, I mean content). And here's the point:

When next I put Steam online (for other games), it will go and d/l all the data for these sh!tty extra units (mods have already done far better units etc for free) EVEN IF I DON'T BUY THE DLC. That's right, it just jams it into my computer whether I want it or not.

Yes, you're supposed to be able to tell Steam not to auto-update specific games. From what I can tell, they've disabled this on ETW. In other words, if CA puts some crap on Steam I d/l without any say in it at all. Thanks for chewing up 500Mb of my d/l cap for the month.

Now here's the final kicker. It conflicts with the mod that makes the game vaguely worth playing.

Make no mistake. This ISN'T a game-fix or patch, it's marketing sh!te.

That's right:
DLC I choose not to buy ends up d/l irrespective of my choice (I just can't activate it without paying, but they nicely load it anyway) where it stops a mod I DID choose from working.

So, to those who say how great these things are, can you please explain to me why it is great that my machine d/l a load of crap I don't want while breaking something I DID want?

To those who say "well the devs made a poor choice making your computer d/l it if you didn't buy it" I say this: they can make any choice they like, and they will, and YOU have no say in it so long as you want to play the game.

People wanted some illustrations? Try that one for size.....

Well, they could make this an optional feature. It wouldn't require a constant net access, only for the time of saving the file, it could also be a "lazy synch" type protocol. This benefit (for many not even necessary since they only play on one system) can be done without the incurred penalty.

Automatic patching in RoF means two things:

1) Whenever a new patch is ready, every user has to download it. Even if it's 400MB and you only have ISDN 128k, you need to download the new patch before you can load the game again.

2) If the patch changes something you don't like, you can't avoid it. You get the update "forced" onto your install.

Again, this could be optional.

Believe me, I put the same questions to the RoF developers over and over. There is no "always online" benefit that couldn't be done OPTIONAL without the penalties.

Unless your internet line goes dead and you realize that people are happily playing a cracked version while you can not use what you paid for.

Neal, have you previously used such systems? I have, Steam, with the Red Orchestra Game. And even though that had an "offline" option, in the six to 12 months I actively played, I had at least 6 to 10 issues with the game caused by Steam. Sometimes I would arrange for a game night with my oversea friends, meet up in ICQ - and find out I couldn't play the game since "Steam not available, please try again later".

Seriously, if you haven't experienced the downfalls of DRM, I can see why you don't mind the idea. But you should try first...

Thanks, that really sums up the reality of customer relationship management with today's big publishers. They can and will do as much as we let them get away with.

And that is the core: No matter if there maybe is a tiny bit of benefit in "cloud-saved" gamestats or whatever, there is one MAJOR penalty: I'm willing to bet a 100 bucks that if UBI can get trough with this System, EA will follow in six months to a year. The games new on Steam will also start disabling "offline mode".

And within 3 years we all will be paying monthly subscription for 85% of the games on the market.


Really, I don't think it is possible to overstate the essence of this topic: If UBISoft can set this idea into practice for all their games and does not get hit in the wallet hard, they WILL set the precedence for everyone else and for subscription based gaming.

The problem is just that a lot of people, without thinking it trough, will support these developments for the tiny bit of virtual carrot dangled in front of their nose called "Online Savegames" or "Automatic Patching" or whatever the marketing team came up with yesterday to sell a reduction of rights as a "feature".

Sadly Frenema, I would love to adopt New Technology along with others who have Poor Internet Connections, But Myself Like many others, Don't have that Choice.

Believe Me its not by choice that im stuck with a 512 Connection that goes down in Peak times and after 1am. To change that, I will have to go and change the Phone exchange or build one nearer my House or Move to a city, Sadly dispite asking my Phone company many times to upgrade, for some reason they wont do it. I wish people would understand we are not all blessed with 100mb Broadband, Im sure we would all love it. I for one would jump at the chance, But Until the Goverment do something about this we are stuck. Dispite having to pay a Tax Just to have broadband Access. We are still stuck with the slowest broadband around.

I am all for a way to beat Pirates, BUT to assume we all are connected 24/7 with a good stable Internet, Is NOT the way forward. Have a look at DCS Blackshark, they have a limited number of installs, which you can save when you deinstall the sim. That way you can install as much as you like. One off connection to the internet to activate game, Works a treat, Great Sim and no probs. Just a little mess around when you deinstall Takes all of 5 mins. OK I know it wont beat pirates, to be honest I dont think Nothing will. BUT Its something.

Whatever gets chosen It will upset someone, and to be honest, Yes people will complain, Its Human Nature, BUT Theres a reason ROF has just dropped DRM, OK it was by the insistance of the European Seller, BUT it will increase sales, I promise you that. I know of 3 people, myself included who has now purchased ROF, just because DRM has been dropped.

I love Silent Hunter, I have been playing since SH1 all those years ago, and have NEVER missed a Version. I AM / Was looking forward to SH5, Hell in a sad way I still Am, BUt this DRM has me torn. I want it, I have a PC that will run it Beautifully. But an Internet connection thats unstable at most peak times and gets turned off most evenings after 1AM for a few hrs for server Mantance.

I havent even mentioned Fair Usage Policy yet though. Now I Dont know how this works, But im assuming that If you are permantly connected to Ubisoft servers, then you will be downloaded and uploaded your progress etc in the background. Now I tend to Sim in Real time, I start a Mission, and set it sailing all in Real Time, Yes it can take days for a contact, BUT it all adds to the atmosphere, Though getting woken up at 3AM by your PC shouting at you, does take some getting used to, and REALLY upsets the wife :) Hence why I only do it on my leave normally.

BUT How am I gonna be able to do that with a connection that A. Slows down if not dies at Peak Periods, B. Gets turned off after 1 AM for Mantance and C. Does not put me over the fair usage policy, Which i Beleve looks at how long you are connected for and how much has been downloaded.

But on a bright Side, Hey at least Ubisoft are aware of the uproar they have caused, OK Sounds like they are not bothered, BUT still Maybe we may get lucky, and they say in a few months, we have listened to our customers and because of that heres a patch to allow you to play offline.
:woot:

Oh, I won't argue with you, until I actually try it, I'm not going to champion it (or bash it). I have had zero problems with Steam, btw.

Zero.

Starforce, too.

Well, maybe on the flip side... if UBI puts this into practice and fails miserable, it might set a precedence for everyone else too - on what NOT to do.

And the chances of them failing are pretty good, since even after years of development, Steam First Day Releases still overload the servers and keep people from playing the game they just bought in the shop and already have "physically" in hands.

Even though I myself have a decent internet connection, I definitely sympathize with you and others who can't play a single player game because of this online check crap; which is one of my reasons in deciding not to buy and support this title. I was merely using trenken's own argument against him to make a point, I meant no offense to you or others without stable internet.

Sorry myself sir, I noticed that, just after I posted and went back a few pages. Doohh, Should really read all the posts first. Sorry And Dont worry No offence Taken, Though It did give me a way to voice my feelings on the DRM shambles :)