Be glad he didn't start singing the national anthem too, he could have sent to the Dutch version of Gitmo for that! :doh:

Did he consider saying he was trying to raise the French flag and simply was holding it wrong? :DL

I think your city council needs to relax a little, maybe get them some weed (or a prostitute). I have heard there is some available in your country. :up:

BTW I think the western world need a few more DarkFish Seniors in it. :salute:

:har:
Never had either of them, but there's plenty:DL

Anyway, since the court ruled against their case, I hope the city council will have a more relaxed attitude on the matter in the future:)

:har:
Though there does remain one issue.
As he was found guilty as charged did he have to pay the prosecutios costs? Did he also have to pay for representation himself?
Would these costs amount to more than the fixed penalty option he was offered?

You can still view posts of people on your ignore list if you want to.:03:

Don't confuse him further, leave him in the strange land where getting convicted in court on the charges you faced actually means being found innocent of that charge. :rotfl2:
It just goes to show that ignorance is bliss:yeah:

That's like saying you can still stab yourself in the eye. Why would you?

true. i can't say i really have the desire though.

now, tribesman, since i don't read your posts anyway, why don't you just give up and go troll some other thread?:shifty:


btw, if someone thinks tribesman has raised a good question for a change, feel free to repeat that question. i will answer to all posts except for tribesman's, even if the question originally was his (i don't have a problem with the questions he asks, i just have a problem with the way he continuously fails to read my answers, and proclaims his own supposed expertise above my first hand accounts of what's really happening).

I will give up on this topic when Darkfish stops posting claims that are so obviously blatantly untrue.

Like claiming someone has won a case and is innocent when the case was lost and a conviction ruled?

That first hand account is so reliable:rotfl2:, perhaps it might be more reliable if Darkfish were not so emotionaly attatched to the issue as it has completely blinded him to the facts of the case.

Thee truth of the matter is that Darkfish doesn't have to read what I write to see the answer.
The point was raised by Scroeder
At which point Darkfish came in with his local legal expertise....
And as anyone with an iota of common sense should know, you don't need to be a judge to understand that you can only be given any sentence for a charge if you are found guilty of that charge.

One question I would like answered though, did "winning" the conviction in court cost his dad more than the fixed penalty of 100 euros?

Its not just the dutch that have these issues us brits have it too, our pub got a letter from the counsel stating they were not to put any england flgas up during the world cup incase it offended people.
I bet they wouldnt even bat an eye lid if we raised a nazi flag.

During the world cup?!:o are they nuts?
important international soccer matches are about the only case here where raising our flag is widely accepted. Along with a select few national holidays (like queen's day for example)

Indeed. The above is quoted from page one of this thread, and I find it strange that I didn't find similar arguments repeated in the subsequent pages.

It would make just as much sense to wave a Dutch flag as a sign of protest FOR mosques. Unless, of course, one thinks there's something fundamentally un-Islamic about the Dutch flag and what it stands for, in which case waving it can only be interpreted as being opposed to religious freedom. Which is why people associate nationalist symbols in this context with right wing extremists.

Now, as for what happened back then, it is disingenuous to say that he was arrested for waving a flag. He was arrested for refusing to follow police instructions. If the extent of those police instructions was simply to lower his flag, then it was a stupid order on behalf of the police. But things are rarely that simple, and I find it hard to believe that him simply holding a flag was what caught their attention. Was he the only one with a flag? Surely he must have done something that other flag-carriers - who were left alone - weren't doing. If he was waving the flag in the policemen's faces, for example, then that would be disrespectful and a very bad idea.

Should have raised a swastika that might draw some attention, it really does eff me off, a friend of mine has just said to me "i think hitler got it wrong gassing the jews he should have done it to the muslims" <<< not from me but there is a facebook group called lets draw mohammed day.

...which is exactly my point.

He was the only one with a flag. He wasn't doing anything else (shouting, swearing, you name it, he wasn't doing it). Nor doing something with the flag, like waving it in someones face.

huh?:hmmm:

"Draw Mohammed Day" is an interesting concept that I actually find worthwhile. I am no Islamophobe, and as an atheist I do not view Islam in any different light than Christianity. I actually have a certain fondness for both of them.

Some use Draw Mohammed Day as a way of mocking Islam, but this is petty and a waste of an excellent opportunity to make an actual statement of value, and that is a statement of tolerance. I very much agree with youtuber AronRa on this, as the protest is against violence, not the faith:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEsX9rj4w-0

It's from 06:33 that the video is relevant to this particular topic, though the whole video is good.

I don't mind mosques being built, and I don't mind churches being built. If, in 100 years, the dominant religion in Europe is Islam, I really couldn't care less. But what I do care about is this: the newcomer must adapt to the establishment, not the other way around. If Islam wants to be accepted in Europe, Islam must conform to European culture. Christianity has a headstart in this, having grown up in Europe. The changes have been gradual enough that the Church has been able to cope.

For Islam it is going to be more difficult, but necessary all the same. Islam is no different than Christianity: Christianity has been (and someplaces still is) like Islam most places today. So has Judaism. If Christianity and Judaism, and pretty much all other religions of the world could outgrow that, there is no reason to assume that Islam can't do the same.


But with a little bit of foresight he should have anticipated that once the police issued the order, they weren't going to back down from it. They would have to enforce it or lose face. Perhaps the grown-up thing would be for them to admit, "yeah, you're right, we were overreacting there", but especially when dealing with protesters, who is going to expect them to admit to mistakes? It might be construed as weakness, and their authority might be seen as impotent. This is why refusing to do what the police tells you to do can be very dangerous, even if they're in the wrong. I'm not saying you should just take it, but if you're going to oppose it, think it through.

It wasn't the police at first. They only came into the picture later on;)

Anyway, I understand how the police didn't want to back down once they started, but fact is they knew what was going on before they even appeared.
I can see why they arrested my dad, my point is that he shouldn't have been ordered to lower the flag.
The direct reason for being arrested was indeed not following up the council official's instructions, but eventually the cause was clearly waving the flag.
If he hadn't waved the flag, he wouldn't have been arrested.