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Jimbuna 11-07-20 08:04 AM

In the UK?

Kempton Steam Museum?

skidman 11-07-20 08:32 AM

"Martin Luther" Steam Tractor Swakopmund, Namibia

https://www.namibia-accommodation.co...tor-swakopmund

"Hier stehe ich, ich kann nicht anders."
(here I stand and I cannot do otherwise)

Wow, really nice find. :up:

Jimbuna 11-07-20 08:44 AM

WOW!....most impressed :o

Catfish 11-07-20 12:40 PM

I am also impressed, give Skidman a cigar! :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by skidman (Post 2705476)
"Martin Luther" Steam Tractor Swakopmund, Namibia
"Hier stehe ich, ich kann nicht anders."
(here I stand and I cannot do otherwise)
Wow, really nice find. :up:

Yes, this is it! The story behind this is a long and funny one, but i will spare you that :03:

https://web.archive.org/web/20110719...chichte11.html

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dampfl..._Martin_Luther

(The website is not entirely correct, also translation does not seem to work, the photos are ok..)

In short: german Edmund Trost, Lieutenant-Colonel of the german 'Schutztruppe' imported a road-going "Lokomobile" (as steam tractors are being called in german) to Namibia with his own money in 1896, because transports inland were a chore and it had all to be done with oxen (no railway or 'Feldbahn' yet). Unfortunately steam tractors need a lot of (rare) water, and also its weight is not exactly an advantage in sandy deserts like the Namib. So it took weeks to get the machine to its destination, it sank into the ground all the time, had to be repeatedly dug out and propped up, then the water was empty and had to be transported 30 kilometers (price being 30 Reichsmark for a hundred liters), and arrived weeks later.
Edmund Trost later imported a Diesel truck which was a much better choice, but the best were still: Oxen.
(There was another british fellow getting two steam tractors and two boats on trailers to the Tanganyika lake in WW1, to sink the real African Queen, the german steamer Graf Goetzen), who had his own troubles - this unbelievable journey can only be compared to Sysiphus or Fitzcaraldo's ship-mountain adventure! Very good book about this british ordeal is: "Utmost Fish" by Hugh Wray McCann)

The truck was later owned by a fellow who wanted to sell alcohol to the namibians, so he put a big cask filled with Schnaps on one of the trailers - it was then that the steam tractor made its last journey, being scarce of water and spare parts (the security valve disintegrated) the tractor stopped in the desert and no one was able or had the means to convince it of going on.
So the machine remained at the place for the next century(ies) to come, rusting, now and then polished by sand storms, and slowly sinking into the ground.

The back then recently christianised namibians (forced by british and german missionaries ahem) were well aware of Martin Luther's quote in the famous trial when evangelism parted from catholicism, being asked why he was a "traitor of the catholic cause" and to "splitting the church", he answered
"„Hier stehe ich, ich kann nicht anders, Gott helfe mir. Amen."
~ "here I stand, I cannot do otherwise, God help me, Amen.".
The Namibians found this a fitting name for the poor abandoned machine, so they called it "Martin Luther" with a wink, and the name stuck.

The machine has been put under a shed, then a museum, been partly restored, and became a national landmark in Namibia.

I can post no pictures but will try later, Imgur is under overload, surely due to the election.

Over to Skidmark :salute:

Aktungbby 11-07-20 12:45 PM

I knew I'd seen this gizmo in studying 18 century Namibian death camps(a college term paper in the '70's) but simply couldn't place it! Hitler didn't really need the Turkish Armenian example for his inspiration:https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...en-death-camps
Quote:

What took place in Namibia between 1904 and 1908 horribly prefigured the crimes of the century that followed. The Germany army, with the complicity of colonial administrators – bureaucratic, desk-bound killers – exterminated thousands of men, women and children in concentration camps. They transported their victims to those camps in cattle trucks and used labour and hunger to kill. So brazen were they that the ledgers in which the deaths of the prisoners were recorded came with the column “cause of death” pre-printed with the phrase “death through exhaustion, bronchitis, heart disease or scurvy”. All this 30 years before the Nazis even came to power.

Catfish 11-07-20 03:04 PM

I am not about whataboutism, so i will not go into details of in how good company the Imperial Germany of the time (or before) was.

In Namibia, it was genocide and rightly called that. Thanks to german thoroughness most papers and documents of the time have been stored and survived, minus some material that was destroyed during the firestorms in Hamburg and Berlin during the second great unpleasantness. It is publicly available, with the usual precautions regarding handling like copying etc.
I know a bit about german colonialism since my beloved wife studied ethnology with the focus on Africa, and those german colonies. I am not an expert in any regard of course.

So what is left of the documents is bad enough, and i hope that Germany will go on on its current path (as your link says, near the end) of looking at its past as a cautionary tale rather than calling it glorious.

skidman 11-07-20 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish (Post 2705460)
Not British Empire :03: Though later said country was administered by a country belonging to the BI.

That was a big clue. The number of countries that used to be British colonies and later became administrators themselves is very small. And there are no steam tractors on display in -hm- Palestine.

Again, a nice puzzle and a cautionary, yet funny story behind it. :03:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aktungbby (Post 2705532)
I knew I'd seen this gizmo in studying 18 century Namibian death camps(a college term paper in the '70's) but simply couldn't place it! Hitler didn't really need the Turkish Armenian example for his inspiration

Maybe this is not the thread for this kind of considerations, but I'd like to add a little remark here. When historians start "connecting the dots" there is a great chance that things are going in a terribly wrong direction, particularly when crimes of the Nazi regime are under scrutiny and correlated to other barbarities in global history. Doing so usually results at the least in a objectionable relativization... ... and suddenly Coventry and Gütersloh are both on the same list.

Back to topic:

What's this?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qoeuganp84...okhd.png?raw=1

Catfish 11-07-20 04:15 PM

Please, any hint?

19th century?

skidman 11-07-20 04:31 PM

Yep, second half of the 19th century. Built in Europe.

Catfish 11-07-20 04:35 PM

England?

skidman 11-07-20 04:47 PM

Scandinavia.

Aktungbby 11-07-20 04:56 PM

an exploration vessel?:Kaleun_Salivating:

Catfish 11-07-20 05:56 PM

Seems to be a cutter.. topmast fixed at the rear - Amundsen's Gjöa?

Aktungbby 11-07-20 09:03 PM

That's gotta be it or I'm not a true son of St Olaf College! Amundsen leaped into mind at first glance. :yeah: It sat(poorly maintained) in S.F.'s Golden Gate park where I saw it once; 'till restored to its native Scantyhoovia in '72 to Oslo's Fram museum! :yeah:

skidman 11-08-20 04:22 AM

@Catfish: Not Amundsen's Gjöa and not a cutter though the stem bar would fit a cutter

@Akktungbby: Not a research vessel, but a innovative design

Clue: She was sailing (almost) only in inland waters and by sailing I mean steaming.

Another clue: Though she was built in Scandinavia, you would find her much further south.


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