SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - UK Politics Thread

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"The Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA) (unofficially, Canada-Europe Trade Agreement) is a free-trade agreement between Canada and the European Union. It has been provisionally applied, thus removing 98% of the preexisting tariffs between the two parts. The negotiations were concluded in August 2014."

I fail to see where the advantage for the UK might be. Remove the rest 2 percent? Ok. How much percent does or did the UK export to Europe?
It does not make sense, from the numbers to sovereignty to take back control of borders they never lost, sorry :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish (Post 2712389)

UK and CAN deal with each other >AS IF< the UK would still be a member. But it isn't, and the EU has no say in this new relation. It uses the EU trade agreement with Canada and the UK's former role in that only as a temporary model, maybe also took over the numbers. No loss for the UK there, things continue as before - but the UK got the EU out of the UK's relation with Canada. No bad solution, if you ask me. Oh, and the queen still is head of state in Canada, maybe these historical ties had something to do with the willingness of the Canadians to do it this way. ;)

They signed this temporary treaty short after the one with Japan.

"The main reason for brexit was immigration, that went well didn't it."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2712399)

UK and CAN deal with each other >AS IF< the UK would still be a member. But it isn't ...

Uh, makes a lot of sense?

Quote:

... and the EU has no say in this new relation. It uses the EU trade agreement with Canada and the UK's former role in that only as a temporary model, maybe also took over the numbers. No loss for the UK there, things continue as before

Yeah, makes much sense?

Quote:

- but the UK got the EU out of the UK's relation with Canada. No bad solution, if you ask me.

But I don't ask. The UK was one of the partaking partners (back then in the EU) who helped shape the CETA deal with Canada, anyone remembers? And then signed it. So this now makes a lot of sense?

Quote:

Oh, and the queen still is head of state in Canada, maybe these historical ties had something to do with the willingness of the Canadians to do it this way. ;)

It is probably the historical ties of some three hundred years ago that is still present in the minds of some like Gove, or Farage, or Rees-Mogg.

But "The willingness", why do you think anoyne should not do trade with the UK? The willingness is generally everywhere. But maybe it is the brexiters who do not want to buy or sell anything to or from anyone.

So why should Canada or any other country not sign trade treaties with the UK now, as it and lots of others did with the EU or other trade partners? And the UK (read: England) will now have different treaties for all 79 or how much was it exterior trade partners, and yes it certainly can do that. It now has to. But again, where is the advantage? Less leverage? Less influence?

But even back then trade was not only about trade and numbers as you wrote somewhere. The EU is not only a trade organisation, and the UK saw to that!
Also the WTO does indeed have a lot of paragraphs that deal with trade and human rights, and they are a bit more demanding than what the EU wrote down in its principles. Which were never really used unfortunately, afaik.

"There is more to trade than simply exchanging goods and services. International trade today involves all aspects of human life and, as a result, EU treaties include clauses that ensure various human rights protections.
But, as the UK goes about making its own post-Brexit treaties, it looks like human rights are being abandoned as a result of its weaker bargaining power.
As part of the EU, the UK is party to 40 trade deals, which cover more than 70 countries and make up about 11% of total UK trade. This allows the UK to trade with these countries on preferential terms. In the event of a no-deal Brexit, the UK would lose tariff-free access to these markets and would have to trade under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules.
To avoid this, the UK has been negotiating new deals with a number of countries that will take effect in the event of a no-deal Brexit. It has signed 15 agreements, covering 46 countries.

But most of these fail to cover human rights. Not only are human rights clauses embedded in the EU’s trade deals, they are something the UK government has insisted it attaches a high value to."

https://www.globalpolicyjournal.com/...l-negotiations

Good book "b.t.w.":
"Forced to Be Good: Why Trade Agreements Boost Human Rights"
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7591/j.ctt7zdx1

You know when i read those brexit comments of how the "unelected EU bureaucrats" are cheating the common man and send terrorists to the UK, overriding british law and order, how they steal their fish and which laws and bananas are bent so that "the EU" (of which Britain was a member) gets more advantage and so on..

And the EU is keeping calm all the time and tries to convince and negotiate, and then reading the Sun or the Express or those brexiters' answers not only in the video above - this is so unbelievably DUMB.
So Farages's friend Frisby makes a song called 17 million f' offs, and this is the intended message to the EU, and the latter is so thankful :haha:
No one outside of Britain should be sorry for brexit, i take it a bit more anger would be in order, and more honest :03:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN28J0OA

Last chance? But there are stlll three weeks ... :03:

No Deal would be painful – but in the long term regaining control will suit Britain

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Try to see it from the perspective of the Europeans: for decades the UK has been an unwilling but productive partner in the Grand Projet. While the Brits have pontificated about the dangers of the Brussels regulatariat, we are as responsible as anyone for codifying, writing and setting up the enforcement mechanisms necessary to regulate Europe. And now we want to do it all for ourselves? That is genuinely scary for many European nations, who recognise the dangers to their own economies from the potential of a less regulated, more productive and more competitive UK.

Britain is a potential threat to Europe across the whole economic sphere. From labour legislation to the regulation of goods and services we could backdoor into Europe if we are given the chance. If we can’t agree to a special trade deal, then WTO rules it should be, unless we can agree something better. A ‘no deal’ will be massively sub-optimal in the short term for the UK. But Europe, which fears competition from the UK exposing their own lack of competitiveness, has just as much to be worried about.

The immediate effect of a ‘no deal’ will be yet another tumble in perceptions of the UK. On the back of Covid damage, political ineptitude and the threats of break-up, the UK is screaming ‘sell’ signals to the global market.

But I wonder if the Eurocracy actually understand better than our own government what the UK has achieved by Brexit. The reason they are so nervous is because they see the prospects for the UK looking better and better:

The UK has re-established its grip on monetary sovereignty, (we never actually lost it), meaning we can print as much money as we require to reflate and reconfigure our economy without any threat from Europe.
We have fiscal sovereignty meaning we can spend that money however we wish to – on regional and industrial policy and stimulus.
By exiting Europe, we regain national sovereignty, which boils down to the right to determine exactly how we succeed or fail as a nation. The UK has re-established mastery of its own economic destiny. Brussels has no say.

Aside from the competitive threat of a new UK, the obvious threat to Europe is that exit might start to look attractive to nations struggling within the monetary and fiscal restrictions of the Euro.

https://capx.co/no-deal-would-be-pai...-suit-britain/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish (Post 2712471)

Uh, makes a lot of sense?
Yeah, makes much sense?

It does, its a terms&conditions settings to keep on trading to mutual benefit with another partner added to their list of trade partners. They lose nothing there, but have the eU out of the equation. As something valid for the time until they have negotiated a final and new dela with canda, this makes a lot of sense. Its called pragmatism, and mounts no additional costs or losses.

Alright, we'll see in a year. Or ten. :)

We will see when Canada and the UK have signed their new, to-be-negotiated trade agreement, which probably still is some years away. Or not. The UK stunned us with the announcement today they signed deals with Iceland and Norway.

---------------------------------

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55248502

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The clash of ideologies, clear from the start, is still very much present.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2712514)

Hey! Look five posts up :/\\k:

This is my own belief

If UK leave with no deal on Dec 31. Some of other EU member states will make directly deal with UK. I could very well imagine Denmark bypassed The EU and made a fishing deal with UK and the same when it comes to France.

Markus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna (Post 2712536)

Hey! Look five posts up :/\\k:

Yes, your posted video made me first aware of the deals with Norway and Iceland. Do I miss something?