You cannot really believe that? "The EU is so unfair", "damaging own image before the eyes of the world". The latter is true, but much more for Johnson and England.
Do you begin to believe in those^ propaganda vids?

What’s was so unfair or iniquitous about Britain being in the EU? The EU is a bureaucratic behemoth "with institutions that self-servingly hint at democratic accountability without the means or inclination to follow through", see Poland and Hungary, yes.

But Britain has had four opt-outs from EU treaties and generally had the better end of the deal:
- Opted out of the Schengen Agreement, which abolished border controls, and opted out from the euro zone. It never gave up border control, despite Farage's bs nationalist lies.

-It opted out or let's say it negotiated flexibility on the EU charter on fundamental rights and police and criminal justice legislation.

- Britain accepted the relatively small number of 20,000 syrian refugees over five years, despite the continent-wide drumbeat for every EU country to do its fair share with resettlement.

- It has benefited from the absence of trade barriers with other European economies, while leveraging its position as the English-speaking gateway to business with the EU. Almost 50 percent cent of all British exports go to the EU, benefitting from the lack of tariffs and a set of common standards.

What the EU still wants from Johnson is a commitment to non-regression. But Johnson or his backers will not have it. Be it standards for working practices or environmental rules for protection of nature. The EU wants that the UK should at least stick to those rules it signed, which are binding for the EU as well. Is this so unfair?

What about Scotland or Ireland leaving the UK then?

It seems the Ireland problem is off the table, in a positive way (?) :)

"24 minutes ago
IRISH LEADERS WELCOME UK-EU DEAL ON NORTHERN IRELAND
Irish prime minister Micheal Martin has welcomed the breakthrough announced by Michael Gove and Maros Sefcovic, who co-chair a committee tasked with implementing the UK-EU divorce treaty."

Yes i know it's "The Sun", but ..:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/133707...entry-13417992

Also "UK drops law-breaking clauses from Internal Market Bill after reaching new agreement with EU"

Heard in yesterdays weekly magazine Brits Boris and Brexit on our news channel.

"
It's a common standpoint here in EU, that Boris should climb down from the tree, where he has climbed up to the top "

Markus

Oh please Markus, do take note of what the position is and has been reported fluidly around the world.

Until a short while ago the UK had a PM (Theresa May) who couldn't negotiate or organise a round of drinks in a pub and what she agreed to in negotiations led to a steady stream of defectors from her own party to a point where she found a small majority in the Commons turned into a minority figure.

Her main criticism amongst voters was that she was close to giving just about every semblance of British pride away.

The Tories got rid of her and voted for Boris (a bit of a bumbling buffoon at times in my estimation) on the promise he would deliver BREXIT (you know, that same BREXIT the people of the UK voted for in a national referendum?)

Boris called a national election and would you believe it but he achieved a majority of 80+ seats in Parliament.

He was elected on the BREXIT mandate he promised to deliver. So when you make reference to a 'tree' and how he got there I think you should firstly consider how he got there and no he didn't 'climb up' but was sort of put there by popular demand.

I doubt the UK have ever had such a determined leader since Thatcher but I'll readily admit they are two totally different personalities.

I'm glad you corrected that last piece Kai :03:

The die was cast as soon as the outcome of the BREXIT referendum was announced.

I doubt the EU are sincere about much these days, especially a level playing field when you consider the deal agreed with Canada and no I don't think geographical locations are that important.

We look at the friction within the EU growing with every passing day and believe you me, it will get worse between Macron and Merkel, not only at a personal level but also on each of their home fronts.

It's a shame it has come to this but if the original goals of the EEC had been adhered to I honestly believe a trading partnership deal of a meaningful and transparent nature could have been achieved.

Now it is increasingly looking like a race to the bottom regarding tariffs and taxes, hurting all parties in the process.

Ask Macron if he is going to make up the financial shortfalls or is Merkel prepared to further ruin the next German generations future financial stability to keep the ship on an even keel?

Either way....what a mess. Oh and thanks for the fish :O::03:

First of all I'm sorry. I saw and heard those word written in my last post last night and I said to myself. I wonder what my friend Jim and other British members in our forum has to say about this.

I try to keep up with the information and the standpoints UK and EU have in these negotiations. I know there are three areas where they can't come to an agreement where fishing is one of them, if not the biggest.

It's hard to get world wide information I have only Danish, Swedish, German tv-channels where there is news program. I have this feeling they are pro EU when they report about these negotiations. I have CNN but they do not use much time on this.

Markus

No apology needed my friend but clarity is essential when discussing topics that are potentially of a contentious nature.

I have been known to refer to Boris as a 'bumbling buffoon' on more than one occasion in the past but as things currently stand he is the only politician living up to what he promised.

It's a bit odd to ask for sincerity with the British currently passing a bill that breaks international laws and infringes almost everything that was agreed on before. It seems the UK thinks it is still in the former cherrypicking position, it isn't. We are sitting at opposite sides of the table now. Each side tries to benefit as much as possible.

The real friction is not between Germany and France. It's between almost all members and Poland/Hungary. We shall see how this develops. When push comes to shove France and Germany will be on the same side.

If the original goals of the EEC were still valid, the economic strength of Germany and the Deutsche Mark would have torn the continent apart again. Just take a look at countries like Portugal, Greece, Ireland before the Euro was introduced.

True. Can this be called an outcome of the Brexit referendum? Yes, of course.

It doesn't really matter, because a mechanism of shared European debt has been established. And while a lot of people without any fiscal knowledge whine about this, it is the next logical step for a federation with a common currency.

Today the British national debt amounts to 86% of the BIP (EU 80.5%). Let's wait 5 years and compare again.

@Jim Honestly, i do not understand what you say, or want to say in the last post further north.
The EU not sincere? Well we have seen what happened in the last four years in England. So you are happy that Germany has to pay more after the UK left? Well yes, what can i say.
Predict its downfall, or the EU's? I don't think so.

France and Germany are the two economical powerhouses at the moment, but i do not see much animosity, they are also very different. When things get worse they will still support and try to save as much as possible for their own and other citizens of the EU. Whether the current governments will be the same in a few years is of course doubtful, support of the people, voters and all that.

And the deal with Canada led to an even playing field (towards the EU - how so?), this one?
"The UK and Canada have agreed a deal to continue trading under the same terms as the current EU agreement after the Brexit transition period ends."
and
"Welcoming the continuity deal, Mr Trudeau suggested a new comprehensive trade agreement with the UK would take several years to negotiate."
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55031443
Same terms and continuity means same standards as before? Congratulations. What was it all for then? :k_confused:

France always has seen the EU as a vehicle to drive its own ambition - dominating a francophile continental Europe, first in the southern region, then continentally. Germany is expeted to pay for that - not to quesition the claim by Paris . That one cannot sustain one's claim by one's own economy and indeed is now one of the candidates for Euro collapse one has to worry most over, has always itched and irked Paris.

Thats why Pris wants the socialisaiton of nation'S debts. So that Germanay carries more of France's burdens.

And why do you expect London to act in the Germans' interest...? Not even Berlin acts in the Germans interest, but sells them out...

Oh, and Canada is not part of the EU, but the Commonwealth. ;) Also, Canada does not patronise the UK like the Eu wants to do. They have a solution for the time their negotiations will last. How they go, is their concern, not ours.

I could imagine that deals with other Commonwealth natiosn folow next. It was not called for no reason the British Commonwealth, once. One shares history. Ine knows each other.

With the Irish solution of today, if it is that (I have no idea), apparently being agreed on by both sides, the UK can expect to find it easier to also get a trade deal with Biden and the US. The deal with Japan, much to the displeasure of Brussels, they already got. Chances to get others as well have increased again now that the breaking of the Brexit treaty - as threatened by Johnson - seems to be off the table again.

And you always complain about the British not doing as you define it to be in their interest. But why do you think your way of thinking of it must be their paradigm? I suggest you try a bit harder to see it through their eyes, under the premsise of what they want by themselves, not what you think they should want. They are grown up kids. They can decide on their intentions all by themselves. It must not be similiar to our intentions, they are not us.