Leaking fuel tanks are a great idea!... It probably is hard-coded into the game, though I'm not sure... :(

After two days of the flu from hell, I am 'starting' to feel better. It was bad and slowly recuperating. Man, if this ain't the Bird Flu, I would hate to see that Raven come calling.

To resond to poster: A hit to the fuel tank already causes fuel to leak at a steady rate until you get it fixed quick. I have lost all my fuel and could not go anywhere taking too long. It is already in the game.

I aim to make the damage model completely seperate from the fatigue mod. I may will include my personal favorite custom designed. Basic and more simple, halfway RUB and half Stock with some Hollywood idea of larger lost in torp rooms or managing the guns (you will not beable to manage the guns very well without a qualified gunner and officer. Set in the changes similar to Damage Control in Basic.cfg intervals).

So far, I roughly doubled the Hull health points, and half the Hull armor. Now I must increase the delicate stuff with low HP in the Watch tower such as periscopes.

I also want to add so some torpedo tubes will be stronger than others so at least you may have one torpedo tube left to fire with. It is a secret changes, so no spoiler lest you look at the file, it is not a bug. It is for gameplay sake. Random stuff. Example you can add a line critical chance to fail = 10% on the compressor, it is normally well armored, but this give a chance to be destroyed out right by a hit. There goes you Compressed air supply.

Helps with the higher Hull health Points, a close hit DC will normally kill you instantly, it wil not be that way by chance, but it will fry many critical systems and you are essentially dead anyway....sink to ocean bottom, run out of air, sink to crush depth depending upon hull state, lose your compressed air supply, no electric motors or propellors, etc. Basically a sitting duck for a DD to methodically kill you off, or stuck under water on ocean bottom, or crushed in deep water. Many men dead/systems destroyed to continue your patrol if you survive is a challenge now.

I notice as gouldjg stated the rest quarters has no self repair. You can also stop self repair by hitting Rig for Silent Running too. Which means there is a way to disable it. Somewhere there must be a setting that controls the value of repair rate.

So everyone can put their own fatigue system in. There is a TON of testing, Similiar to changes made by gouljg, I am using his Zones.cfg, then making changes based upon dozens of DC attacks to fine tune the damage. I am increasing the Hull health points, but I discover you maybe need to lower the armor value. This allows the slow crush at depth, but does not make your Uboat a super tank on the surface hit by shells. It balances out to about the same damage.

The whole point is to get the longer death sequence of light flickering, lights out, water pipes bursting. Seaman sreaming Mediiicc!!! wounded and dead. Vital systems lost to continue war instead of always the instant death screen. It will be much more drawn out and more chance you will just limp back to base to fight another day (or continue the fight), and get a fresh crew for those that did not make it/wounded.

It is good to see you aren't beaten by your flu bug! (Steven King's "The Stand" comes to mind. There is a raven that reappears periodically in the story.)

The mod sounds simply yummy! (as long as it is separate from fatigue mods)

Will this mod also cover the Type IIb and VIIc/41 as presented in RUb?

...Rather, can we make sure that it does cover those subs.

:ping:

Hi Jungman


critical chance to fail = 10% on the compressor,

Are we sure that this is correct?

I always presumed critical chance is for when you are storing ammo as a cargo and it is the chance that the ammo will explode.

I noticed this on the ships with ammo or fuel as cargo.

Also look at the multiplier as this seems to add the ability for extra damage to a subsystem.

I am really looking forward to this mod now.

I hope you plan to do a battleship and aircraft carrier version later on as a expansion of your work :hmm: .

The Die Hard trilogy should rock :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

In addition, we smoke fags, which means we smoke cigarettes and not the US alternative to using a Magnum 45 in a gay village.





PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:48 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
You should never smoke a fag with a 45 magnum-the gun has to be cleaned and it's a waste of perfectly good lead.
joker

Humm I have found that most GAY BASHERS have a little something in there closets :hmm: :yep:

I was just wondering if we have any DC fall rate staistics.

With this mod going the way it is, I think I want a stopwatch so I can get an ideas if the DD has wrong depth or how long till it strikes me.

Should we not start collecting this data? Maybe it would be a good idea if we posted the times on this thread and maybe one of us could place a guide in the game either via the background or by Rubinni's method.

Sub at 50m = DC explodes at ?? seconds.

Is this possible?

Lets help by getting him some stats throughout the week ahead while we wait.

Jungman, great news about the fuel tanks. I've been gettingf dc'd now since the day the game came out and have never experienced this. Just lucky I guess.
Keep up the good work. I'm really looking forward to this.

Is this still a beta? :hmm:

Hi Martes86

Sorry for not keeping people informed.

In light of Jungmanns discovery with regards to Hull integrity discovery, This project has now steered damage models into a completely different phase for the better.

There is no point for another Hollywood damage mod when a Die Hard mod is coming that will completely wipe out Hollywood damage with regards to thrill, realism and factual content. (Yes I will even slate all my previous work because this is going to be that good)

To put it simple,

Jungmann has made a fantastic discovery and thus deserves to be the one to do the damage tweaks and launch the mod.

I am not anyway near as analytical or experienced as Jungmann in some areas such a sonar, DC, Bombs etc so am quite happy to sit on the fence with this one and offer assistance when needed.

With regards to crew model, I have started work on a real shift system though this is suited for those who like micromanagement and only wish to play at low/no time compression.

Later I will expand the crew system for longer periods. (See real-time crew thread)

Overall we have decided to split the 2 so there is more choice for players who run different fatigue models.

Jungmann is trying not to restrict players and cause difficulties in installations.

My fatigue model work is not for everyone and thus this action has been taken on the best interest of game play.

Hope you understand and hope you enjoy the new mod when he has finished testing everything. :up:

Right, but I seen critcial chance on other odd stuff. Critical=yes. You can place ammo in there to really light it up as you say.

The regular can DC falls st a steady 5 m/s. So at 50m it wil take 10 seconds.

To make repairs longer, I am playing with idea of making the DC stronger in blast damage. Only your submarine cares about it. That way the self repair will be less and take a very long time to repair.

Example, the self repair is based upon the effeciency of the crew comparment bar being 100% full, eihter by several men or one guy with a high qualification. Plus it depends upn the HP set for that comparment as you know. It takes longer for one man to repair a system that has 1000 HP to only 100 HP. But this causes a problem. It will never really be destroyed. So you must place in a critcal chance to blow to hell with large damage, or increase the size of the DC blast strength.

I do not want to lose realism too much, A DC barrage that was meant to kill you shall still kill you. The difference is instead of instant death screen. It is drawn out, between men dying/ wounded, systems failure, and you may just survive anyway.

The stock damage model is either 1) You survive, no systems lost and no one ever dies or hardly wounded. Or 2) the Extreme opposite: Instant Death in a few seconds.

This is a middle ground. It is hard to describe it. It may not be realistic 100%, but makes for a hell of more fun to play.

There is alot of testing. I spent 12 hours last night, it seems very good except I may need to increase the DC blast. I survived too many DCs that should have killed me. Before I do that, I want to try the critical failures that will help. Two DC blast within 10m I should be 'dead' one way or another.

I watched a new animation the Chief Officer makes, A DC hit right on the hull (usually instant death) inside he flipped over inside the Uboat! :huh: He was going crazy, the lights flick on/off and shaked violently. It would seem there was a true death animation set up, but was removed do to political correctness? They must not want to show graphic seaman dying and screaming...(the screaming voices are there in the sound folder but is disabled).

My last thought is in order to get a realistic repair times and death, half dead, system failures. We need to lower this self repair rate. That is what I am doing. It gives a better damage model without cheating and making the submarine into a super tank.

The shell damage from being on surface is not affected. No need to change it, since I can lower the armor for the Watch Tower, Flak Implacement, Deck Casing to receive more damage to balance out the higher health points. But an under water DC blast will be problematic (as you know -look no watch tower!).

I want to avoid the changing the Shell and DC damages for this reason. Still working on this and trying to find where the repair rate is stored at would be nice.

This is still Alpha state.

This sounds VERY promising Jungman! :up: :up:

Thanks, still working on it. It changes alot of stuff. Making the Uboat Hull have a higher HP and lowering the Armor level lets the Uboat have more internal disasters without whiping out the hull in two seconds. IE the damage penetrates to the interior more, so on the surface you will be shot just as easy, but more damage will go to internals instead of the external hull.

Now the hull does suffer becuase the hull armor was lowered to make up for its higher health points. Similar to what gouldjg did for the comparments inside the Uboat already, it is just doing for the hull to get more internal hits instead of a two second death screen from a shell hit (or DC hit) whiping off the hull.

I am looking at reducing the the crew repair time by reduction in qualification in Basic.cfg. I cut it in half and I find it sems to work much better. This number as you know from the Damage Contol changes, affect repair ability. At the same time, it affects the crew ability to run the boats compartment hand in hand also.

I find you can go quite lower without destroying the crew's ability to run things. It makes qualification more important. Instead of taking four non-qualified seaman to run the engine room minimum, it will take six. Or just one qualified and two extra seaman. This will tie up more crew to get the Uboat to run 100% (plus Officer bonus). Only ahighly skilled and ranked crew can run 100% (whatever that means). But it does cut repair rate ALOT.

So if a DC hit the engine room, unles you have 8 men maximum to fit in there and no qulified officer or pety officer, it wil take four times longer to repair than normal. And only a qualification of machinist can make this better.

I do find it seems the higher points with reduced armor lets more damge pints to be done. But its limit is the DC damge size. It maybe be better to increase the DC charge blast to get more HP damage to systems so you can get repair times in hours.

But I do not want to unbalance this yet due to unintended consequences. Yeh I know, alot of stuff going on here and the testing is so slow.

YEah, we don't want to unbalence the game too much. Just let the testers give you their own opinions once you release the mod.



But are you still making the sonar changes? or making changes so that those destroyers are a little less accurate? As I understand it, destroyers should be doing damage by the volume of DC's that are dropped. IMOH, they should drop SH*T loads of inaccurate DC's, rather than a few accurate ones...

Yes another one to get around to. Alot of hex editing. making more so to escape by going deep under sonar via oRGy idea. But using real life numbers and some gameplay changes.

Plus maybe might change the DC model as you say. For a more exciting game. Only late war sonar should go the full 300 meters deep. Type 147A. You can have a stronger Uboat and regular 40m raduis to simulate a 'barrage'.

Sounds great, Jungman. I think this will an entirely new aspect to the game...and a lot more suspense.

Sounding great so far Jungmann.

Look at what the majority of people want, release a teaser and then build the ultimate model, which also includes realistic ship battles etc.


Most people would be more than happy with a few more balanced floods, a bit more complicated damage and a little higher hit points to slow things down that little bit but not too much. They will then be happy to wait longer for your masterpiece.

I know what it is like to crawl through .zon files and then zones.cfg and now crew and maybe DC zon files.

All this is obviously needing a lot of testing to try and get a balance so it is maybe a good idea to get a simple version out first and have 50 testers do some work for you.

I would however prefer the flooding and floatability to be more balanced so that a player can decide whether or not to come out of silent running to fix this.

I have hex edited and played with this a little and from my first impressions not all, that much needs changing for many players to start enjoying the vast difference to the stock game or Hollywood mods.

The main problem for me was the direct straight line of five DC that you go right into and the instant death after though in reality this was probably true.

Now I can at least survive for a few minutes longer and sometimes even survive the whole ordeal with escape. Either way it is just thrilling

Bye the way, I want to try your harder 150 arc DD sensor fix, the RUB version is just a tad too easy to slip.

I should not be slipping 3 DD unless God was a crew member or I worked strictly by mathematics and time.

Is there also anyway you can make DD stick around that area some more once they have lost you or better still give them a better search routine.

I just want to get as close to possible the later 8-12hr hour ordeals.

I actually prefer the medal effectivness decrease if it does have dramatic effects on repairs.

All in all good luck

Why are you reading this when you should be working :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

That is called SonarDC_20. Its blind spot is only 150m so the DD can bite you harder (RuB is 200m blind). And the DC blast is set for 20m instead of the smaller 15m in RUB. Stock is 40m blast radius and no blind spot.

DD crews come in Recruits to Elite for enemy AI. (0 to 4).

I am also making up a (with the idea from oRGy) the depth search is limited in early war sonar to very good late war. So it will give you a reason to go deep to get under the sonar maybe to escape. else why take the chance? It will be good to know what month and year it is, so you know which DD types had what sonar installed at the time. Knowledge will help your decision.

So in the early war sonar, they are blind by 200m, later in war that number will be less to 100m, and finially for the Type 147A sonar: lets say you do not more than one DD over you or else extremely difficult to escape without a good Uboat and luck.

Plus at random the crew of DD is from recruits to veteran and elite. This determines the AI smartness in campaign (random) and mission (set from the scenario start -look for it on the start screen). Elite crews are very hard to escape from. :know:

Good stuff so far Jungman, I like it.

For the latest version of IuB I've changed the sonar (asdic) as to your historical data. Seems to work well. The DC radius and blind spot are as per RuB though I may change this for the future.

I also eliminated Poor (level 0) crews, replacing them with novice (level 1), and eliminated Elites (with a couple of exceptions) from the SCR layer. (replaced with veteran) As I think level 0 crews are way too useless, and Elite too uber.

Really, well that would save me the time to hex edit it. I am working alot of time getting a new damage and repair model working. It is coming along.

I think that data is pretty close to all the reading off the net I could find, and keeping gameplay in mind. You were not that far off the mark earlier. Is it ready for download? :cool: I might as well test it while doing all this other damge modeling / crush depth death scenes.

As for the DD blind spot, the only thing I would add is to make the early war 200m as it is now, then give the later war and or other sonar a less blind setting to a minimum of 100m, and maybe give the type 147A zero blind spot if not going to use Elite crews.

Maybe even the passive DD sonar can be nerfed some below 200m to 300m maximum also. This all adds up to giving the player a reason to chance going deep to escape several DD above them by going deep getting under the sonars, especially if they are Elite/Veteran. Of course that assumes you have the deep water and not caught in the shallows such as the English Channel.

I use a version with the shorter blind spot 150m for all and larger 20 meter radius. I am so experienced at the game, I need the extra challenge. :D

gouldjg (or others who wish to try) here is an alpha version to use with the type VIIC only.

http://rapidshare.de/files/6812504/D...ha_7c.rar.html

I reduced the petty and officer's qualification effect by 25% plus the change to the Damage Control room interval 10/30.

Additionly changes to the sub compartments similiar to any Zones.cfg to its end.

The extra Health Points for the 7c was doubled, the armor level lowered from 25 to 10 to balance it out. No going 'mano y mano' with a DD on the surface. The HP allow for a longer hull while sinking and DC barage, instead you have more system damage and failures.

I did not change floatation in Zones.cfg, I want the sub to start sinking if flooding becomes heavy, the other changes to this critical floatation ( by other mods) makes the sub unrealistically resistant to sinking from flooding.

Having a qualifed and rank crew is very important in order to get decent repairs. So spend renown on a ranked crew. Try it at different years on the U-505 mission.

Repairs and station effeciency go hand in hand. This means low ranked and unqualified crew will need some more to work a room. Engine room example takes 6 seaman, whereas a cheif Sr. Petty officer with machinist qualification can do the work of three seaman. A middle ground cheif petty can do the work of two seaman.

This helps to stretch out the repairs. The only place I can see with intervals giving a decent bonus, is the torp room. Minimum amount to load, then time is cut down by half about 66% then at 100% it is shorten some more.

The radio room I need to adjust some to get 100% with fully ranked and qualifed crew.

Only the Damage Control Team can repair the rest quarters. their is no self repair from crew there.

I am not mesing with crew fatigue for this (which obviously can make it even harder to repair via causing bow torp/engine room and such to have a higher fatigue rate and step ala gouldjg work).