I don't see how you can seriously blame the democrats for a bill (IWR) that was drafted and passed by a republican congress (meaning it would have passed no matter how the dems voted) and signed by a republican president, who 5 months later saw fit to re-interpret it however he wanted to and act accordingly.

I'm not saying the dems are blameless. As I said, they made the tragic mistake of trusting a President and trusting his judgement when he's since shown he's worthy of neither. But the dems did not make the decision to invade Iraq in March/03, nor could they have; Bush did.

You are trying to play a game of smoke and mirrors here and I'm sure republicans running for re-election in Nov will be trying to do the same thing, if they haven't started already. Perhaps this shell game might even work on some of the electorate. But I doubt it'll work on many. Most people aren't that stupid. As Bush said:

There's an old saying in Texas, I think in Tenesse too, that says 'fool me once, shame on.... shame on you... but fool me twice can't get fooled again'.

The Congress and the President belong to the same party, much of the legislation drafted in Congress is done so at the President's request, and all of it is either signed or vetoed by the same man, and if the President vetoes it then unless it was passed by 2/3rds of the house and senate, the bill dies. The only bill the President has ever vetoed in 6 years of office was the one on stemcell research, which was nothing more than a crass bone to the fundie base whose votes his party will be desperate for in Nov if they are to retain control of both houses. So your arguement, while factually correct, doesn't tell the whole story and paints a picture that is very distorted. But that's one of the traits I pointed out in the dittoheads; the preference for living in a reality manufactured by the RNC and repeated everynight by Rush and his ilk (all category #1 republicans who actually do stand to gain directly from republican policies).

I'll agree with you though that Rush is witty and entertaining, but so are some used car salesmen, and I put him in the same category since the product he's selling is, for the vast majority of Americans, a lemon but he's well paid to sell it and if he does make the sale and convert the ever shrinking swing-vote into an (R) vote, or get out "Independents" and other Republicans in Nov to check the (R) then he'll make a very tidy commission on their policies (I'd imagine his share of Bush's tax cuts is well into the 6 figures).

I think you'd enjoy the book. What's amusing is how he admits he was, for most of his life, a lock step Republican, describes how he became that way, what aspects of the Republican ideology appealed to him and why, and how recently he had a bit of an epiphany when he began to notice, more and more, the disconnect between their ideology and their policy once in office. What did it for him, if I recall correctly, was that being a fiscal conservative he could not reconcile hypocracy in the growth of a government whose Congress, Senate, and President are all Republican against their ideological centerpiece which has always been small government; yet when the y are actually in power theirs is the largest and most spending happy government in American history.

Nation building was another turning point as well. He voted for Bush in 2000 and at that time, in his debates with Gore, Bush said that he was going to get the US out of the nation building business that the Democrats had gotten it into; however in his first four years in office he's already tried to build two of them from the ground up, and both of them have amounted to little more than very expensive failures (to the tune of over a trillion dollars before its all said and done, and more likely closer to $2 trillion). But you don't get to that to the latter part of the book and that's only a tiny part of a small book. Like I said, being an independent you should be able to enjoy it and if you don't you can always return it.

By the way, as an aside I can understand how people vote republican in spite of the fact that republican policies are largely detrimental to most of the people who vote for them. They have invested billions of dollars in various "think tanks" (The Heritage Foundation being one of the best financed and best known, but only one of many) who spend a big part of their budget on finding out what makes the average voter tick, what issues appeal to them and can be used to bring them over to their side, and how best to package and sell an ideology that is entirely counter to the interests of all but a tiny portion of the electorate. And its been money well spent. They have changed not only politics, but even the language of politcal discourse. They have no match in this realm. Yet when it comes to actually governing, they suck. And this administration (the Prez and VP of which could very well both face impeachment hearings if they lose control of Congress), and its republican congress (the former head of which is so corrupt he was indicted and had to step down) and republican senate (the head of which has also been under investigation by the SEC) will likely go down as the most corrupt and worst US government in American history headed by one of the worst presidents in the American history. But then that's just my opinion... only time will tell.

:rotfl:

Excuse my cigar smoke as I play flashlight tag with the good old boys' club.


I haven't been playing any games at all. I've been asking direct questions and posing direct arguments. Stop making excuses.

If you're still in denial of the fact that Dems supported (and VOTED) for the invasion of the Iraq war then it seems like you want reality to fit you.

It doesn't work that way.

Keep in mind that before this whole "Iraq is gonna fail" and "Bush lied to us" rhetoric came around, the Dems held the aforesaid positions........when it was politically popular to do so. But it is now politically un-popular to say that the improvements in Iraq are a GOOD thing (building schools, bringing basic rights to the people, producing electricity etc.).

None of this is what you hear on the news. But of course the Repubs. are all blamed for the deaths in Iraq and he apparent "lack" of progress seen. As if Bush had any real control over what was going on in Iraq.

But hey, when Iraq succeeds in standing on their own and can hold their own government, and hold free and fair elections. Guess who's gonna try and band-wagon on the credit? Democraps.

Ya gotta give credit where credit is due.

Oh my gosh! Could you imagine Gore as Pres? Ouch! Gore would be like - they just blew up the twin towers! What should we do about it! Should we beg for their forgiveness?

I guess Gore would be 100x better than Kerry. As far as I'm concerned, Bush was the best choice out of the choices for the job.

-S

It's pure ignorance to think that a Democrat would just scare away from an attack on our homeland. That's just plain and simple nonsense. Matter of fact, I recall a Democrat in office on Dec. 7, 1941, and who boldy and bravely stood up against the heinous attack at Pearl Harbor and immidately returned fire on them. I also remember there was a Democrat in office when both Hiroshima and Nagaski were A-bombed. I also remember that all of Europe was saved from Nazism and tyranny while a Democrat was the president. The past proves that the Democrats HAVE ballz. It's the cowardly Republicant's who haven't done diddly squat for the country except to get it further and further into unpayable debt.


Also, I'm sick of Republicans ALWAYS basing their political party believes on how they felt about William Jefferson Clinton. The only reason why you think that Dems don't have the ballz to stand up to terrorism is because Clinton was a draft dodger. Big Flippen WHUP! Your G.W. Bush ain't no American Hero either! Eww wow, he flew a plane and was late to several role calls and finally stopped showing up altogether. He military records really suck and show that he was an un-squared away military member. Just some lazy rich kid who's daddy got him out of trouble with his command. However, John Kerry WAS a war hero. His records are clearly documented by the Navy and he served with honor in an unpopular war.

And there is the bottom line....STFU already scandlous about the president of my country.If it was Bush or Kerry or Kermit the frog ya gotta stand behind your leaders.This country is still,STILL the best place to live in the world, so if ya don't like it tough titty.Deal with it.To sit there and come off like the ENTIRE world was hood winked by Bush is preposterous and insulting frankly to the intell community.People make up there own minds...as do you, so quit coming off like the I told you so guy like Skybird does....one I told you so guy is all we can take.

Where's that popcorn ? ....

I love ya Skybird :)

At least Bush released his records when Kerry didn't.

Btw, draft dodging is a FELONY. and bypassing the whole spiel of how he got there....Clinton is the first pardoned felon to have served as president of the United States.

You gotta stand behind the leaders eh? Maybe down there. Up here, where we've been at war with Afghanistan for as long as you have, and on your behalf where many fellow of my countrymen have shed blood and lost lives, we reserve the right to be critical of not only our country, but also our allies and our enemies. The fact that Chretien and Martin, both Liberal PMs, were at the reigns of government while we were at war in the ME didn't stop the criticism of either, nor did it prevent Martin from being voted out office and consequently resigning his party leadership position; nor should it, or will it, prevent us from criticisizing our current PM whenever he deserves it.

To my way of thinking if your half-witted President hadn't lost sight of the ball, Bin Laden - remember that guy? - and committed even half the forces to Afghanistan that he wasted chasing phantoms in Iraq, then Afghanistan might well be a very different place today and we might not need to still be there; but in the meantime, since our country is also financing, with blood and treasure, your campaign to remake the ME in America's (or Iran's, who can tell anymore) image then expect the criticism to keep coming. :up:

Hey, be glad!!! You guys limit your president to two terms in office, then he has to step down.

Here in Australia, we've had the same munchkin in office now since 1993, with no crediable opposition to speak of. You could drop little jonny in a septic tank and he'd come out smelling llike a new born bub!

Even members of his own party want to get rid of him, but can't. To add further salt to the wound, voting is compulsory!!!

Love to see how the US would cope with that!!

[quote=SubSerpent]So was Benedict Arnold.:D

BTW, did you watch any of the ABC show about the road to 9-11? Liberal foreign policy on parade.:up: Too bad bubba was occupied with other stuff.:rock:

..now where was the popcorn?

(offers nickimcbee popcorn......throws popcorn at Avon to see what happens)

/avon hands broom and dustpan to yahoshua and tells him to clean up the mess he made

(calls in dog to have a treat....dog dies of food poisoning......hands rest of popcorn to nikimcbee with evil grin on face)

Could you make us some more popcorn...lots of butter, please. And while you're in there, could you get me a deit coke too, thnx:lol: