SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - Iran Enriches Uranium- Now's the Time to Strike

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Originally Posted by Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense

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So in hindsite, you're saying the Germans shouldn't have been stopped and all Churchill wanted was to be able to "feel more secure at night"?

only you could take what i've said above, and twist it into the foolishness that you just posted... it's not even worth replying to...

Please, I ask that the modeartors forgoe their warnings and allow everyone else here to call me a fool for my posting, which Hense is referring to.

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They could have been Germans, too, but for the record, the Frank's protectors were Dutch and Oscar Schindler was a Czechoslovakian who joined the Nazi Party.

an both were citizens under the Nazii rule, weren't they... sorta similar to the Kurds living under Iranian rule, within their borders today... ey... wouldn't ya say...

No, they're not all the same, in a sense.

But you're missing the point. Where did anyone say that all the Germans were Nazis? Where did anyone say that all Muslims were terrorists?

Once again, you don't read what people are posting. You assume what you want to.

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but if that aint enough, i could give you the name of an old lady, a member of the active German resistance back then... i heard her speak once... an inspiring figure... and i could give you many more names... places, and instances... but i'd surely be wasting my time...

You would be wasting your time, at least with me, because this is commonly known information. Even my children know that.

Yet my children know that such people were uncommon and, for all of their good deeds and self-sacrifice, could not stop the annihilation of millions more.

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like i said before... facts mean nothing to you... in your mind, 'they' are all bad...

"For a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." - Simon and Garfunkel, The Boxer

Keep punching, Mike.

noones calling you a fool... don't even try and go this route...

don't whine to the mods, by trying to twist what is clearly evident from the text right in front of you... in a vain attempt to get me censored, similar to what others of the same or similar intolerant thinking would do...

you are acting now just like the regime in Iran... just like i told you many posts ago, there is very little that differentiates all who think like that... you are the same as those you denounce...

what in fact was said was, was that the statement you presented was foolishness...

just stop and look at the conclusion that you came up with, based on what i said... come on, surely now, noone in their right mind would draw such an obviously absurd and skewed conclusion, other than you...

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Yet my children know that such people were uncommon

and lets not bring your children into this... they are children...

--Mike

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Originally Posted by Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense

if you both had proper clearances, you both could see daily photos and hear transcripts of radio traffic from selected key sites...

like you said, this aint the past... things arent being handled like they were then, for sure...

and while we're at it... you might also be interested to know that several key sites in the whole region have been under close 'survellience' for quite a while now... including some within Israel...

many 'planners' see Israel as a neding to be kept under close scrutiny as well... along with India and Pakistan...

--Mike

I would think so, thats what intelligence agencys do. :doh: And plans are made at all central staffs for all kinds of scenarios. But putting Israel in the same list with Pakistan has to be a joke :lol:

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putting Israel in the same list with Pakistan has to be a joke

tell that to the people who target the survellience satellites... they are in fact on the same list...

--Mike

Re: Iraqi WMDs revisited

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Originally Posted by scandium

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Originally Posted by Abraham

Bookmarked!

This guy knows obviously more about Iran and the intentions of its leadership than all of us on this forum combined...

Interesting you should say that. Here's some snippets from an article from him from June 18, 2003 (not even three years ago), titled "Iran is no Iraq and the US should leave it well alone":

"The words "regime change" are being uttered again. Washington hawks concerned about Iran's nuclear capacity are urging the overthrow of its Islamist Government. These hawks confuse Iran with Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Iraq was a mere torture chamber for a brutal dictator. Unlike in Iraq, there is no need for a military confrontation in Iran, a country with a well-developed opposition, which allows a lively debate between hardliners and moderates, and has a strong chance of democratisation without US intervention...

The American presence in countries neighbouring Iran, especially Iraq and Afghanistan, has put the fear of God in the Khomeinist Establishment. This does not mean, however, that there is any support for an aggressive posture by the US among the demonstrators. The threat of American military action could backfire by triggering an Iranian nationalistic reflex, giving succour to the hardliners.

As Iran enters a delicate phase in its internal political evolution, it is important that the US and the EU be on the same side in dealing with Tehran. Pressure on such issues as nuclear non-proliferation and Tehran's sponsorship of terrorism must be accompanied by support for the prodemocracy movement, and promises of aid and trade in exchange for reform.

Dealing with Iran requires tact and patience. Broadly speaking, Iran is on the right path, although zigzags and even temporary reversals cannot be ruled out. Less chatter about regime change by hot-heads in Washington circles would help Iran's moderates."

Full article: http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/419

I basically agree with this article - seen in the light of those days - and with his article that The Avon Lady linked.

A lot has happened in Iran, and not for the better.
Democracy is suppressed and a Hitler-type president Ahmadinejad, has come to power in a not all to democratic way.
The country has speeded up its nuclear weapons program and missile program.
Public executions of regime critics, homosexuals and converts that openly practise Christianity happen almost daily.
More than enough reason for a journalist to take a different view at a different situation...

well Abe... take this into consideration...

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Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty
Main article: Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty
At present, 189 states are party to the 1968 Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. These include all five declared Nuclear Weapons States (NWSs): the People's Republic of China, France, the Russian Federation, the UK, and the USA.

Notable non-signatories to the NPT are Israel, Pakistan, and India (the latter two have since tested nuclear weapons, while Israel is considered by most to be an unacknowledged nuclear weapons state). North Korea was once a signatory but withdrew in January 2003.

The NPT's main objectives are to stop the further spread of nuclear weapons,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_proliferation

... and someone above suggest that grouping Israel into the same category as Pakistan was frivolous :roll:

hey... ya can't make this stuff up ya know... hahahahaaaaa... seems like i'm not the only one who sees this obvious linkage...

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More than enough reason for a journalist to take a different view at a different situation...

fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on where you stand or sit, journalists do not make, nor are they tasked with carrying out national policy...

--Mike

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Originally Posted by Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense

noones calling you a fool... don't even try and go this route...

Oh, excuse me. Only my posts are foolish.

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don't whine to the mods, by trying to twist what is clearly evident from the text right in front of you... in a vain attempt to get me censored, similar to what others of the same or similar intolerant thinking would do...

On the contrary. You have made me paranoid that my logic in my argument above is really foolsih and is totally irrational and twisting your words. I just need to hear this from more members here, as I an paranoid about relying on your opinion, for some odd reason.

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you are acting now just like the regime in Iran... just like i told you many posts ago, there is very little that differentiates all who think like that... you are the same as those you denounce...

Yes, you're right. You must be.

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what in fact was said was, was that the statement you presented was foolishness...

just stop and look at the conclusion that you came up with, based on what i said... come on, surely now, noone in their right mind would draw such an obviously absurd and skewed conclusion, other than you...

You have yet to rationally explain why it is foolish. Funny, calling people's thoughts foolish to dismiss them was something that Stalinists used to do. But I digress..............................

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Yet my children know that such people were uncommon

and lets not bring your children into this... they are children...

Our children are aged between 7 and their 20s. I'm only pointing out that much of what state is not news to me, my husband or the children we educate. Nor has anyone else contradicted you on these particular points. Yet you nevertheless go on the accusative, in this case against Abraham and myself.

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Originally Posted by Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense

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putting Israel in the same list with Pakistan has to be a joke

tell that to the people who target the survellience satellites... they are in fact on the same list...

--Mike

Can you tell more? I have a high ranking agent in the US goverment who said that hell would freeze before US would do an pre-emptive strike to Israel. I could tell more, but then i would have to.. you know.. :rotfl:

@avon...

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Oh, excuse me. Only my posts are foolish.

yes... the content of them is obviously bordering on the absurd...
your twisting of what is said by others is what is at the core of this assessment...

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You have made me paranoid that my logic in my argument above is really foolsih

your admitted paranoia is of your own making... and probably existed long before i posted a single word... all i'm doing is presenting facts in the face of repugnent intolerance of agenda promoting...

@Happy Times...

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Can you tell more? I have a high ranking agent in the US goverment who said that hell would freeze before US would do an pre-emptive strike to Israel.

yes, i could tell you more... but then i'd have to kill after :cool:
actually, i doubt if you know anyone who has eyes on clearance for these photos... your 'source' is probably a secretary in the typing pool, or some otehr mid or low level asmin specialist, who, in fact, should not even be acknowledging to you or anyone, as to what has gone past his/her eyes as being fact, fiction, or even existing...

by the way, the former Soviets also have spy satelites up, and they have long been providing the US with these photos as well... tell me they aren't also looking down on Israeli facilities...

--Mike

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es, i could tell you more... but then i'd have to kill after
actually, i doubt if you know anyone who has eyes on clearance for these photos... your 'source' is probably a secretary in the typing pool, and should not even be acknowledging to you what has gone past his/her eyes as being fact, fiction, or even existing...

Only intelligence men i know work for the finnish military intelligence and they would never talk about anything work related with me. :lol: I might just post it here and harm my nations interests. :rotfl:

Iraqi WMDs revisited

@ Mike 'Red October' Hense:

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Originally Posted by Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense

@ Abraham...

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This guy knows obviously more about Iran and the intentions of its leadership than all of us on this forum combined...

and what do you actually know about Iran... the people...

well, seeing as i've been there, even if it was in a military capacity... i, by default, know more about the place than someone who has never set foot on the ground there... i doubt if you've even been within a thousand miles of the place... all you know is what you read in the news and can scour up from google... your view of the world is all based on second, third, and fourth hand information...

so, my views aside, and going along with your predilection for beliveing what you read... here's just a little bit more from other more informed and qualified sources, that may open your eyes a bit...

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/06/07/iran8774.htm...
http://www.americanchronicle.com/art...articleID=7525...

you would group them all, Iraqis, Iranians, as a single homogenous group of crazies... just like some of them would group all Americans as being from one single group of crazies... both of you, on both sides, are actually quite ignorant of the true facts about the other... and both of you are wrong...

it is this ignorance, the resultant fear, and your own insecurities which drives your impulsive alarmist points of view...

your would kill off the hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of Iranians who seek the same democratic goals as we in America have fought for, and are still struggling for today... merely because your poor eyesight views them all as muslims and therefore as terrorists...

... merely so that you could feel more secure at night, and during the day, so that you might be able drive your gas guzzling, enviroment polluting pre hybrid vehicles around cheaper.

you share the same mentality as those who would've indicted all Germans as naziis during WWII... you choose to remain uninformed, and stubbornly so... lemme just ask, how would you then explain the German resistance... how would you explain the people who hid Anne Frank and many like here... how would you explain the actions of Oscar Schindler...

in your simplistic view of the world, these people could not possibly exist... but in reality, they did...

can't you see that nothing in the real world is that cut and dry... nothing is that black and white...

the military option is undoubtedly a valid one... and is already being planned for... as far as i'm concerned, it is a good thing that more rational heads are in control of the 'button' than those i've heard here...

and as far as this nuclear option is concerned... once the dogs of nuclear war have been let loose, the end of civilazation as you know it has begun...

it has already happened... but the future is not a sinle timeline... you still have a chance to make sure that the timeline that you are on takes a different course...

(that last part is of my own... that should give you plenty of fodder for your inevitable close minded response)

--Mike

Here is my "inevitable close minded" response:

Do I get all this garbage thrown at me because I bookmarked a link presented by The Avon Lady or because I bookmarked a link from a journalist who is critical about a theocratic regime...?

Here is a more openminded response:
I would appreciate it if you let me state my own opinion instead of being confronted with this mockery of it

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your would kill off the hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of Iranians who seek the same democratic goals as we in America have fought for, and are still struggling for today... merely because your poor eyesight views them all as muslims and therefore as terrorists...

etc., etc., etc., etc.

If you would have taken the - little - trouble to check my position on a possible attack on Iran you would realise how far off the mark you are (not within a thousand miles, I am tempted to say).

Simplifying and falsifying the opinion of another forum member may make it easy to ridiculise him, but at the same time serves to create a forum full of dangerous lunatics, at least in your mind.

I'm interested in serious discussions - or funny postings.
This thread is neither, so I'm out of here...
You can have the field.
Doei!

At Abe...

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I would appreciate it if you let me state my own opinion instead of being confronted with this mockery if it

first of all... i am mocking nobody...
second... just look back on everything you've posted... everything... how much of it is based on factual information... now, ask yourself, how much of it is based on heresay, rumor, propaganda, he said she said sorta stuff...

now do the same for my postings and conclusions...

ya see... it's not about me... and it's not about you Abe...

it's about truth...

never once did i try to change your mind about anything... only to encourage you to seek out the actual facts... in order that it may help you arrive at a more informed conclusion or point of view... if you see this as mockery, then there is little i can do about it... but don't blame me for it...

my prime concern here is the community here... nothing else... your right, your courtesy to disagree with whatever point i or anyone else makes here should be gauranteed... and your right to do so, in civil, unpressured, unintimidated fashion is one that i don't think anyone would object to... especially not me...

what i do object to is the recent spate of postings against an entire relious and or ethnic group, based on not facts, but ignorance... many of these people share this community with us... as do they share many principles of freedom and tolerance...

for them to have to suffer these indifferences is in my view, intolerable, and against everything that this place stands for...

sorry... i feel strongly on this... if nothing else i do here, i am happy to do this...

@HappyTimes...

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Only intelligence men i know work for the finnish military intelligence and they would never talk about anything work related with me.

of that i was quite sure... now that we got that validated, here is a bit of public information that goes way back inthe spy sat days...

this may surprise you a bit, as you think that it would be a joke for the US group the Israelis and the Pakistanis...

http://www.afa.org/magazine/June2003/0603kh7.asp

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Israel is another ally whose territory came under the watchful eye of the KH-7. Nearly 100 of the satellite images were of Israeli targets, undoubtedly including the Dimona nuclear reactor facility in the Negev desert and key air bases. These are the only images that have not been declassified.

from AirForce online... read the article... the facts there might surprise you... at the very least, they will shake you foundations as to what you believe to be frivilous, and what is taken very seriously by those who are tasked for defense...

and this was back in the 60s i believe... trust me, before the news of Sharon entering the hospital became public, people in certain places had pictures of it happening... that's how far the tech has gotten... that's how complete the 'coverage' is...

and that's only the tip of the iceberg...

--Mike

Shouldn't that be Mike "Vizzini" Hense? :-j

Yours, Mike

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
LOL @ MM... ok, ya got me... :up:

watch your six :cool:

--Mike

No need to get Tom Clancy on me, i have some knowledge of US tecnical capabilities. Though they might be lacking in HUMINT. But i still think putting Israel and Pakistan in the same level in threat assessments isnt true, sure US gathers intelligence on everybody..