That's more like it. Those men died in a sub that belonged to their country, that is why most of them served. It wasn't just a Nazi sub. Saying that it was a Nazi sub is spitting on these fallen veterans' legacies.

I don't see the issue. U-168 was as much a Nazi instrument of destruction as the gas chambers at Auschwitz. There as been much historical revisionism to try to whitewash german servicemen, but the truth is that everyone who rose to a position of authority was a Nazi or loyal to Hitler, that includes Donitz and aces like Prien or Schepke.

U-boat commander Kultsch was court martialed and executed for making vague anti-Hitler statements. Much of the crew testified against him and no one in the U-boat force, including Donitz, lifted a finger to save him.

Since the war, you have seen countless German high ranking officer claiming they were not really Nazis, they had no idea about the Holocaust or were just following orders. That is pretty much a lie, most shared the Nazis goals and knew what was going on.

The real anti-Nazis did not serve, they were jailed like Curt Jurgens or escaped like Willi Brandt.

People in the same room talking in a thread... confusing.. anyways, you are correct that changing opinions is next to impossible. Yours will not be changed and almost nobody here will find it wrong to label the ship (not the people in it) as "Nazi".

Move on.

It was a Nazi sub.....When you fight for a Nazi political system, you're part of it.

It was said because your post was ludicrous.
If you had any knowledge of the working of the military and party you wouldn't have introduced the Flensburg cabinet into the topic to try and distinguish between the two.
You managed to really shoot your own argument to pieces by highlighting precicely the bunch of crazy Nazi political/military war criminals which you should have avoided like the plague if you wanted to maintain any semblance of credibility at all in your attempt.


So onto one of Sailor Steves points of interest.
Reichsminister Speer, and his denials of knowledge about the "solution" to the "jewish problem"
When he talked of his nice little sit down chats with his good friend dear old Adolph he put Hitlers words into two categories.
In 1977 which category did he put uncle adolphs words to him on the aim of destroying the jewish race throughout Europe?
Was it....
(A) mad rant which usually meant nothing
(B) calm calculated words which you knew he meant and knew he wanted done.

If the answer is (B) how can his denials be in any way true?

I don't pretend to know, or to judge one way or the other. I only point out that the "slave labor" part was all he was accused of and put on trial for.

Then quit acting like one. What else would you call someone who enters a forum, picks on something innocuous (to all but you) and vociferously defends their point of view against everyone else in that thread?

No, but by page eight you might have started to understand.

Nor anyone else here yours. :/\\!!

Write it off as a bad day, come back tomorrow with a fresh head, clear of anything Nazi and try again.

:hmmm:
Looking at my U-Boat Badge and there seems to be a mistake with it.
It has a swastika!
:huh:

:haha:

I'm still strongly convinced by the hypothesis that the maturity of one's post projects the true age of the poster.

:hmmm:

If that as true, then I'd be 2 years old, when in reality I'm 14.

And privateer helped make one of the best mods of all time, so I'd say that he's a fully mature human being.

Plus, I've seen pictures of him.

So your hypothesis has been proven wrong.

Thanks for the siggy. :salute:

This whole on-going thing just invites the Smart Arse in me to prance about.
:D

It's a pretty good thread for GT standards.
Lot's of fun, fairly low on the bad side, some good exchanges.

I give it a 4.
:haha:

I WISH I was as young in body as I am in mind.
:D

Just pointing it out as his own statement seems to rubbish the denials he made.


Not really
Count three, war crimes, guilty
Count four, crimes against humanity, guilty.
Both counts in relation to Reichsminister Speer covered much more of his work than just the slave labour. Though Four mainly focused on the slave labour

Again, this really isn't saying anything. It just looks like a juvenile temper tantrum.

I'll help you out. Perhaps you forgot my original statement:

"In the last days of the war leading members of the military became the leaders of the government and asked for peace."

If anything, your statements give credit to mine because you can't seem to put anything together that's even eligible. The attempts to counter my original statement are amateurish at best, creating the perception that there really isn't any credible counter-argument in the first place.
:nope: