Right. Just wondering. This is a problem in many countries including mine, Canada. We have had some cases in revealing abuse but very often justice is not served. It's a case of the 'old boys club' protecting their own.

For the church to ever regain any credibility they have to come clean. I'm not holding my breath on that one.

exactly. the church has its hands (protégées...) everywhere... like the mafia.

I cannot explain the details since I am not in the knowledge of details, but can only say that on some social issues, labour laws, and law enforcing investigation stuff as well as established property and tax-relevant practices the church enjoys a status of being excempted from the rules and being allowed to replace legal procedures valid for everbody with rules by its own law. In parts this is further boasted by the church being accepted to claim formal diplomatic status, which is another thing that is impossible to accept - a religious organisation is not a nation and thus cannot claim for example diplomatic immunity for its representatives. If one accepts the idea of a Vatican state, then one also have to surrender US sovereignity over the property of the headquarter of Scientology, for example.

Not to mention that temples are often seen and accepted as untouchable places, no matter whether churches, mosques or synagogues. When was the last time you have seen a pedophile clergy or a wanted terror suspect beeing arrested by uniformed police and brought out of a church or a mosque in handcuffs by policemen in uniform from a church or a mosque? In many european nations police has even agreed to even inform religious institutions and representatives and give warning time before they try to arrest a member of the community - of course I am especially thinking of the British and the Muslims. But the practice is being done like that over here and in other countries, too.

Religions must stop to be taken as a valid argument for why their members shall be saved from regular law enforcement and obeying laws that are valid for everybody else. Religion is private stuff. It shall not overrule secular society's rules and state's laws. Else you could also demand that all criminal offenders should be released from prison and set free because the are drinking tea instead of coffee. Didn't you know that drinking tea means you can claim special, elevated status for yourself!?

Especially the Catholic church still behaves as if it still were the medieval and clergy were part of the landlords' feudal and the ordinary people just their subordinate property. I do not know what disgusts me more: that the church behaves like this or that so my people are still willing to let themselves be treated like that and still defending the church. Different to little children getting abused and raped, an adult person has the means to resist and to refuse to obey some dubious organisations' claim for his life.

I don't except that explanation. Are you saying that if a priest commits a crime, any crime, he will not be brought to justice because of his status? I'm not referring to abuse cases from ten or twenty years ago. Can you show that this has happened recently? I'm not saying it hasn't I just can't believe that Germany's justice system is that out of date.

I can only speak for my own country. There have been a number of priests charged and punished. An important case.

http://www.carters.ca/pub/bulletin/c...5/chchlb11.htm

I couldn't agree with you more.

That's an unfortunate reality.

Having said that I am sure there are many devote Catholics who are very disturbed by these things and are doing their utmost to prevent it and to expose it. Not an easy task. I wish them well.

The scourge that is organized religion spreads well beyond Catholicism or even Christianity in general.

Religion is fine, it is the (firebrands in any sect), that makes it intolerable and counterproductive to progress.

whatt?

so... that dude tried to hide behind the Pope's Robe sort of speaking.
because The RCC is every member of that church(the church is not the building... it is its people), and the hierarchy in special.
and the hierarchy sits far away in its own country that makes its own extradition laws.

LOL or Mad?
that is not "interestingly".. that is quite normal IMO.

Well done, Canada.
Great piece of reading.:up:

Nope, priests can just be arrested as everyone else and it has happened in such cases in the past. They are not above the law.

I think that's one of the problems, hands where they are not supposed to be. :yep:

Sure, they can be arrested if caught, the problem usually is it's reported to the church to be handled in the church. What's terrible is when the Vatican is aware of the crime, but will not report it, rather cover it up, a crime in itself. Course many abuse victims would rather settle for money, knowing they'll get nothing out of a court case.

What I find sad is the numerous parents that know, but refuse to report it, fear of the church, guilt, etc. They are taught early to let the church deal with such issues.

Take away all churches (catholic, mormon, Westboro Baptist) tax exemptions.

People talk about the poor getting a free ride and critisizing, but the religious get the biggest free ride in the history of man.

I take a more moderate position. I believe that churches should be treated the same as corporations.

The not-for-profit activities of the church should be tax exempt
The for-profit activities of the church should not be tax exempt.

The corporation nature of churches no longer fits the "one status fits all" as more and more churches are engaging in for profit activities.

Even as an atheist, I recognize the beneficial effects on our communities that the not-for-profit activities of church provide.

We don't need to put unnecessary burdens on people doing goodly things. Your deity of choice knows that we need more goodly people doing goodly things, not less. :yep:

Churches should be encouraged, through tax expenditures, to continue, and increase, their not-for-profit programs that benefit the community.

However, Churches do need to pay taxes on their for-profit activities.

Schroeder, there are too many cases where the church was allowed to move pedophile priests into different priests and countries so that they were out of reach for the police. The conflict between state law and church law is a grey zone there. Partially these practices openly violate German laws by hindering German persecution by law enforcement, and hindering the justice authorities. And many politicians nevertheless hold their guarding hand over the church when this has happened.

I would also insist that when the church knows it has a pedophile rapist in service somewhere, it has not hand him over the the authorities even if the authorities so far did not know about the case. Not doing so equals "Verschleierung einer Straftat", and conspiracy for doing so. Both is under penalty in Germany.

On the other hand, church law has set rules that regulate when under which circumstances personal records for example, but also other files, must be destroyed, and after shorter periods of time than German regulations for employees and offices usually demand. This comfortably often has the effect that personal records against suspects had been destroyed by the church befpore investigations could have had a look at them. The German state so far has not confronted the church over these rules and allows it to get away with it. It compares to a military commander giving order to destroy all appers and maps while his post gets overrun, so that the enemy gains no sensible information.

---

Anyhow, the bishop of Trier today has complained that the church "is the victim of injustice". He said that the church has cooperated with two other comparable research projects, although their findings - empirical conclusions on how widespread the problem is - was no compliment for the church. What the good man did not say is that so far the church only lets some people count the number of cases without further consequences, and that none of the two earlier reports so far has led to the arresting of rapists, nor has the church approached the law enforcement authorities in an act of initiative in filing charges against known pedophile priests, nor has it agreed to allow criminal police running independent, fully supported investigations in cases of suspicion. The police runs such investigations - but against the opposition of the church. This is what makes the difference.

So dear bishop - you seriously claim the church is the victim of injustice, have I got that right...? I know one such victim of our organisation's criminal actings, and its family, and I say you, bishop, deserve a spanking of your naked butt, in public, on the market place, and two days and nights in the block so that they can throw eggs and rotten tomatoes on you.

Very good point and position. Well said. :up:

Churches today, and they have been for a ages, are the biggest nontaxed businesses in the world. And the Catholic church is the most corrupt and richest of them all.

Now if God was out there paying attention, do you really think these priests molesting children would have gotten away with it for all these years? I think not. And that's only the tip of the iceburg.

And to complete that, of all nations, the Catholic church in Germany is the richest of them all. There is a mandatory tax to be payed, which in an act of evertyhing but a secular cooperation is collected and handed over by the state, and institutions and hositals for which the church pays only 10% in building and maintenance costs neverthelss chnage over onto possession of the church, with 90% of the costs payed by the taxpayer, who is directly subsidizing this "enrichment" even if he is no church member, or is openly hostile to the church like me. So, even me needs to directly pay for them. I say thank you for that.

It is a medieval setup over here. And the church is treating people like a feudal big landowner who has the duke and the trading guild in his pockets.

Last year Catholic laymen organisations once again petitioned for obligatory church taxes being abandoned, so that the church should live by voluntary donations, like it seems to be the case in almost all other parts of the world. Rome and the German bishops simply said No, found some stinking excuses to get away with it, and that was it.

Add to this the privilege of massive tax exceptions, and questionable business models.

Now you know why the German Catholic church is the richest in the world. It is in bed with poltiicians, and the state, and jurisdiction. In Germany, the lambs are golden.