haha I just realised what day it is haha I am a lapsed catholic who keeps clear of whole thing now. It's the best option up here really. The Muslims extremists don't stand a chance against a bunch of very angry Protestants and Catholics up here lol

Well...if Europe does not stop immigration and will let millions and millions of Muslims in that will happen...
Such massive emigration would change face of Europe...not necessary to sharia state but the distinct European culture might be sort terraformed.
Many Europeans may not to like it and for sake of everybody EU politician should take this into consideration.
It does not really matter what % is violent or extremist the cultural impact will be there...its not matter if one likes Muslims or hate them the question is if this cultural change is acceptable to Europeans.

What Europe might look like then...see turkey now... if you like it then its cool.





...........

I only realised as it was on the news, we don't get as many refugees coming down from the holiday as we used to.
Then again its probably cheaper for them to fly to egypt and stay in a hotel than it is to come down here.:03:

Did I compare Jesus to Mohammed? Not at all, but when you look at the Old Testament, there is enough fire and brimstone to go around for anyone. God alone knows what happened part way through the bible to cause a sudden shift from God spread fire and death on the heathens to the teachings of Jesus. Perhaps the author died and another guy wrote the ending, we'll never know. When I stated that Christians and Muslims are exactly the same, I referred, rather, to the fact that they both have their devout believers and their not so devout believers. Admittedly there's a bit more involved in the Muslim religion, however if I'm honest once upon a time there was in the Christian religion too, regular church visits, festivals and the like. You have Christian radicals and you have Muslim radicals, and the fact that we only seem to hear of the latter is simply because we live in countries that are predominantly Christian. If you were to pick up the news in Tehran, it would give you a different picture completely.
I am wrong, perhaps, on comparisons between Jesus and Muhammad, but elsewise the correlations, particularly the way the Bible has been used to justify so much death and destruction, as much as, if not more, than the Qu'ran.

What unites the Jihadists and Crusaders? Perhaps this quote:
I agree there is a rise in fundamentalist governments in Egypt and Libya, and it is a concern, but it was inevitable from the start, and again, the fanatics, the lunatics get the loudest voice. I am certain that there are quite moderate Egyptian Muslims but they will be drowned out by those calling for the destruction of the Pyramids, because it's easier for people to observe the louder of the crowd than the quieter. I've found that in general though, in any government, when religion mixes with politics, it's just messy.

Getting back to Muhammad again, a quick Google search provides an almost schizophrenic selection of quotes from the Qu'ran ranging from:

“The greatest crimes are to associate another with God, to vex your father and mother, to murder your own species, to commit suicide, and to swear to lie”

to

"Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Both of which can be taken out of context, and indeed, a quick google search shows that the latter quote is indeed taken out of context and presented on a website which seeks to portray "Islam's Terrorist Dogma in Muhammads own words"
To be honest, I doubt the authenticity of some of these quotes that are said to be 'from Muhammad' and yet do not appear in any version of the Qur'an that I have seen.

If you are not attacking Muslims per se, and are instead attacking the ideology then that is understandable, but I think that you're missing the mark by a fraction in that it is not the ideology that is at fault but the human nature that has resulted in that ideology.

In quoting me there with:

You missed off the other part of the question which puts:
Certainly if I were a Christian living in Iraq I would be very very quiet about my religion because of the extremists. However that would not automatically mean that every Iraqi would want to kill me, or if they did that it would always be about religion as opposed to the several hundred tons of ordinance that has littered their landscape.

When it comes to this plot to take over Europe by birth rates, perhaps it will happen, or perhaps they will just speed up the inevitable population collapse and world war sooner, it's a double edged sword and if this is their ultimate goal, it's not a particularly well thought out one.

There have been moments when we have missed connections, however I have not written you off as a 'whacko Nazi nutjob' like some others have because I know that you possess a good intellect. Perhaps my words are a bit harsh in judgement, however if one were to go on first impressions, then you do not present a particularly appealing one, and it has done little for you to further the message you have put forth outside of the select crowd that already believes that which you already do.

The thing is, Skybird, if there is a great population boom horde coming from the east, then what exactly is the average Subsim forum member meant to do about it? Honestly? Is the Brevik solution the only solution?
You and I both know that the politics of the countries we live in have long since disconnected from the people that they serve. We no longer feature in the running of the country, we exist as peons, as pawns to be milked by the government and then discarded when we no longer serve our purpose.
Any uprisings are put down by the police, and any protests are ignored.

There will come a dark time in the near future, but I do not think that it will be Islam that causes it. It may benefit from it, or it may find itself driven out of Europe once again in a wave of xenophobia. Either way is quite possible at this moment in time. But dark times will come, and I think that we can all feel apprehension at what is to come as we know that the current situation, the current lifestyle is completely unsustainable.

I do see where you're coming from Skybird, although I think that you may have fallen far, far, far into the trap of the boy who cried wolf and no-one is listening to you any more. Certainly there is a great portion of this forum that tires of seeing threads with the term 'Islam, Muslim, or Jihad' in them, and that is how it is, if you expose a person to something over and over and over again then they lose interest in it. Deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan no longer create the headlines that they used to because we're used to it now. Sad? Yes, but there's little that can be done about it.

In the meantime, I think it best if we agree that we agree on some matters and disagree on others, for, as I have said already, I'm not here to change your mindset, I'm not that kind of person to fight a fight that cannot be won, after all, as Sun Tzu said "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious."

Perhaps one day, when my German is better (a LOT better) and I win the lottery (lol) I can visit Germany and we can have a good sit down and debate this until the early hours, it would be quite the occasion and I do love a good chat about philosophy and the human psyche. :salute:

Not all of them come from the Koran, some come from the six Hadiths while others come from the Sunnah.

You can read all of Sura 9 here:
http://quran.com/9

It does not get any better in context... :dead:

You see here lies you main problem...there is no great conspiracy to take over west by demography.
Some islamist may have thought about it but that is not the issue.
The issue is natural emigration that may change the face of Europe and threatens the cultural hegemony european love so much.
The issue is also the stupidity of your politicians.
Lets face it....Europeans don't like it a bit hence the rise of ex-Nazi political parties(great Israel lovers all the sudden...*&^&*^ those friends lol)

Yet your link supplies six different versions of each line.
Which is the correct version to place into context?
The link also has 9 different collections of differing texts.
Which translation of which of those texts is to be placed in context?

Could you for the sake of integrity of arguement compare each of those you object to with the matching passages from christian scripture?
Or is that another detail you are going to ignore like the previous flaws pointed out in your attempted reasoning?

Whoops...

http://thedailynewsegypt.com/2012/07...giza-pyramids/

I can hear it now "...well, it sounds like something they'd say, and that's good enough for me!"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...cover-wax.html

You can argue about importance of such proposals...but not that they had been made.
Just think medieval:haha:

Well, every Tom, Dick and Ismal has their opinion or proposal on what to do with religious objects, the Salafist party polls about 20 percent in the Egyptian parliament. It's not particularly likely to happen.
If your intention is to highlight the fact that the idea has been suggested, well, as the saying goes, opinions are like... :up:

20% of egyptian parliament aligned to current government....it is not some outcast fraction on political map.
Also where would you put the current egyptian government on your domestic political map?

Relax. They can't do anything to those pyramids because they don't own them. I have it on good authority (McBee) that some Egyptian guy sold Jimbunas Granddaddy the pyramids for 2 quid and a little bit of "Bob's your uncle" back in '42.

True fact. :yep:

Well, considering the current Egyptian government is run by the military still....

Chaos.

There is some division of roles due to the fact that military is regarded as the pragmatist.They don't have "revolution guards"...at least not yet.

Is that the government the military council abolished a couple of weeks ago?