SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - What does elenaiba say...

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- - What does elenaiba say... (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163099)

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanaiba (Post 1292441)

Well, I cannot post everything that I could say, indeed. But still:

Negative Feedback received about Silent Hunter generally fits into the following categories:

A - wrong expectations (some thing are just not in the scope of sh5)
B - legitimate concerns about bugs and unfinished features - Most are NOT news to me, since I have a list bigger than the forum. Trust me, you cannot match my expectations - but then again, the same could be said by most of the serious, passionate game developers out there.
C - legitimate concerns about some design choices - like for example the interface. Part of these I can understand, but I am not that concerned since most can be fixed easily by modding. Getting a SH4 style interface back in the game is very easy.

As I was saying in another thread, I have no reservations that WITH TIME (equal patches + mods) this will be THE ONLY SUBSIM TO PLAY. Calling this game arcade is wrong, its no more arcade than SH3 or 4. Calling this an RPG is partly wrong, is simply as simulation as the games before but with an extra layer of RPG like crew development.

I am not at all happy with the current state of the RPG parts (long story) but:
a) nobody is forcing people to use them
b) they can be modded into something more realistic

I will stand by the concept of the RPG parts any day, because I have read enough books to understand that some things that happen in war are simply not justified by technical specifications and field manuals. At some point the man is the one that matters the most.

Before I close this down, I have two more things to say:

1) Ubisoft is a company, of which Ubisoft Romania is a part. Please stop separating the two. Not everything that is good is our merit, not everything that is bad is "the suits" fault. I, of all people, have my parts in the failures of SH5. The people "high up" could have simply decided not to do another SH, just as you guys can choose not to buy.

2) Please stop trying to create a war / antagonism between modders and devs, we need each other.

So, for my final statement of the day, NO, I am not happy with the state of SH5. Of course, except for SH3 - which was not perfect either - I have never been happy with the release of any of my projects.

I have much trust in the potential of SH5, but I am not a fortune teller. Did I quit my job after the launch? No. Am I not a man? I wonder.

People might not buy the game, miss on fun, and not suffer any problems that the game has at the moment. But for the guys that did invest their trust in us, I'd say they need us here.

Yes, Gunnodayak, it took me time to write this long answer, and I waited for the lunchbreak in order not to disturb my current work assignments.

I will have to say.... Im floored by the HONEST response here by elanaiba and I RESPECT the fact He had the courage to say he is NOT satisfied by what was released.

I actually sat at my PC all weekend (3 day weekend) and spent about 25 hours playing SH5. And overall I think I have been too harsh on the devs in the past... your creation was a MASTERPIECE!! Very engaging and fun.

With that said its a crying shame things were left so unfinished. The struggle you had to create the most immersive Uboat environment was brought down several levels by bad design choices (devs mostly to blame, and if I read elanaiba's response correctly he takes the blame willingly! Way to MAN UP bud! :yeah:), as well as the compressed timeline and demands from "the suits".

But what ticks me off (and probably the devs as well) is 1) how bugs from previous SH's made it in the game, 2) how many NEW bugs were in the final release (after 2 patches) and last and worst IMHO is how UBI blames this "niche" market for being to small and not buying thier game.

Again its a vicious cycle. Starting with SH3... game released with bugs, customers talk, not as many people buy. So SH 4 given less budget and/or design time (but more demands placed on devs), released with more bugs than SH3. Customers talk, less people buy (at least at full price), Ubi blames shrinking "niche market". So Sh5 is given less budget/design time (but even MORE demands for NEW stuff on devs).

You see the cycle.

Now again I retract some of my harsh comments over the last few months since release. I see the diamond in the rough..... and it has the potential to be a VERY nice diamond. Its just a shame something so pretty has to be so marred and need MODs to make it what is should have been. How many new sub-simmers have been turned off and lost forever by buying SH5 and being totally turned off by the state sH5 was in at release (pre-patch).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak (Post 1292391)

It seems that you, mate, don't have the required manners to post on this forum. I do, maybe you should learn from me how to speak and how to choose your words.
Maybe some moderator should see these words you've just spoken to me.

Now I like your profile pic today --keelhauled. I wonder who spent the effort to collect all those pics...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomi_099;1292572
[COLOR=#cccccc

My friend, you're right.

[/COLOR]I do not see it all so negative.
I recall that created by a mod, and have incorporated it into the game.
That brings a lot of work and patience, these efforts to realize.
Then one sees what has created and suddenly remembers that one has not achieved the goal of what I wanted to achieve.

Why should this not be another case of our friends.
It's always a learning process we are engaged.

With such a complex work of SH5 simulation, I take my hat:salute:
What the guys have done in the short time.
This is a tremendous achievement.
Even a beginning of the expansion of the New Silent Hunter generation.

But I do not know a single game that has no errors.:timeout:
This gives us again the occasion a Patsch get

And maybe the possibility of getting an ADD ON.:hmmm:

That means we are not at the end, we are at the beginning
A simulation of a lot more offers than SH3 or SH4.
Now really is not yet aware of us because we are too much
To see the visual. But under the hood that can much more
When we think.

.

:rock: I Agree :yeah:, That means we are not at the end, we are at the beginning

Yeah. Thread necromancy at its finest.

Maybe a merge with the "Army of Zombies" thread :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faamecanic (Post 1429974)

. I see the diamond in the rough..... and it has the potential to be a VERY nice diamond

.

I Agree :rock:

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonschk (Post 1430367)

I Agree :rock:

.

Just got my VIIB ...with the two FlaK decks.... WOW :o what a beauty!

As a simulation SH5 has a lot more to offer than SH3 or SH4 ,

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonschk (Post 1430469)

As a simulation SH5 has a lot more to offer than SH3 or SH4 ,

.

With a couple years time and a whole lot of work yeah. Though the GR2 file format shoots itself in the foot.

@AOTD_MadMax

Ships don't have sensors, sounds are broken.
Heck!
Alot is broken!
We fix it, or forget it!
You it seems, have choosen forget it.
That's fine if you choose to follow that path.
Have you shown your true skills, knowledge, and abilities by giving up?
I expected more (on a personnal level) from you and your Team.
:nope:
What is the main problem?
Tools? Know how? Knowledge?
What?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faamecanic (Post 1430290)

Maybe a merge with the "Army of Zombies" thread :D

Nah, that's a LOL thread. :woot:

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer (Post 1430474)

Hi Privateer,

its easy to say !
First of all iam an customer of SH5, paying 50 Euro for this game in the same way i payed for the other SH-Games.
So its not my part to fix the game to the gold-state and i dont have to show my skill by doing the work of Ubi.
If you want it, do it but dont bother me with this kind of posting here.
I dont like this kind of personal attacks here mate.
I have shown my skill with works for SH3 and SH4 like FOTRS.

I laugh about that posting from elanaiba cause he say "we need each other".
What kind of partnership does he mean ?
Nearly one year until SH5 was released i wrote a mail to Ubi with my idea for partnership between some modders and the devs for making SH5 better.
It was an totally concept how you can work out an fantastic subsim with a low budget by using the manpower of the modding-community.
No response ...............
And now he talks this things like "we need each other".

Yes, we need each other but not after the child was falling down.

Do you know why small germany is so powerfull in engineering ?
First we make a plan ..............

As an projectmanager he should have the overview to what could have realised in the frame of time and money.
Remember, first they spoke that all Subs should be a part of SH5.
After realising that time and money is to short, they sell us a nice story why only the type VII sub appears in SH5.
The same to many other features missed ore not working in SH5.

The first view of an company should be the view to their products, not at the money they can earn.
If the products are in a good quality, money comes automatically.
So we handle here in germany and thats the reason why german cars are so popular over the whole world.
Thats why germany is the global player in engineering.
We keep an eye on the quality first.

Creating a high quality product is not the work of an strong marketing-department.

finish !

Regards

Maddy

Now in German !
Und hier auf Deutsch ( das kommt besser rüber wie mein schlechtes Englisch )

Hallo Privateer,

zum ersten möchte ich Dir sagen das ich ein Kunde bin, der 50 Euro für SH5 bezahlt hat, sowie ich es auch für die anderen SH Spiele gezahlt habe.
In diesem Sinne ist es nicht meine Aufgabe das Spiel zu einem "Releasestatus" zu fixen um so meine Fähigkeiten unter Beweis zu stellen in dem ich die Arbeit von Ubi mache.
Wenn Du darin deine Aufgabe siehst, ok, dann mach es aber komm hier jetzt nicht so rüber das Du an meine Fähigkeiten in Frage stellst nur weil ich mich dieser Aufgabe nicht widme.
Derartige personelle Attacken mag ich ganz und garnicht da sie völlig aus dem Kontext gezogen sind.
Das was ich kann habe ich mit meinen Arbeiten für SH3 und SH4 gezeigt, insbesondere in FOTRS.
Modden ist für mich nicht die Beweisführung meiner Kompetenz und meiner Fähigkeiten sondern mein Hobby welches in der Summe dazu führen soll
das mein gekauftes Spiel in meinen Augen besser und umfangreicher wird.
Es ist auf keinen Fall ein Wettbewerb und schon garnicht die Endkontrollfunktion und Patcharbeit für einen Publisher der es nicht versteht
vernünftige Arbeit abzuliefern.

Ich kann über das was Elanaiba da geschrieben hat nur lachen.
Zusammenarbeit zwischen Moddern und Devs, wir benötigen einander ?
Ja was für eine Zusammenarbeit soll das bitte schön sein ????

Ungefähr ein Jahr vor dem Release von SH5 habe ich eine Mail an Ubi geschickt mit einem Konzept wie man kostengünstig eine perfekte U-Sim unter Einbeziehung ausgesuchter erstklassiger Modder auf die Beine stellen könnte.
Es kam keine Antwort.
Jetzt wo das Kind in den Brunnen gefallen ist brauchen wir die Zusammenarbeit , brauchen wir einander ?

Weißt Du eigentlich warum das kleine Deutschland im Maschinenbau Weltweit so erfolgreich ist.
Wir machen uns erstmal einen Plan bevor wir anfangen zu basteln.
Konzeption ist das Geheimniss des Erfolges.

Als Projektmanager sollte man den Überblick haben über das was in dem Rahmen aus Zeit und Geld realisierbar ist.
Am anfang hieß es doch das in SH5 wie in SH3 alle Boote enthalten seien sollen.
Dann aber wurde uns eine schöne Geschichte präsentiert warum das nicht so ist.
Das ist doch der perfekte Beweis das es genau an diesem Überblick mangelte.
Ich halte die Ausrede die Dan damals in dem Interview gegeben hat für eine der schlimmsten Lügen überhaupt.
Es gibt nur Typ VII Boote weil ........ und die Kampagne geht nur bis Mai 43 weil ........
Totaler Humbug, das gibts nicht weil sie sich verzettelt haben.

Der erste Blick einer produzierender Firma sollte immer der Blick auf die Qualität ihrer Produkte sein und nicht der Blick auf das Geld was man erwirtschaften könnte.
Dann nämlich kommt der Erfolg und das Geld automatisch.
So machen die Unternehmen in Deutschland es und das ist der Grund warum deutsche Autos weltweit so beliebt sind.
Das ist der Grund warum Deutschland im Maschinenbau Weltführend ist.

Die Qualität eines Produktes wird nicht von der Marketingabteilung bestimmt und gemacht, sie entsteht ausschließlich in der Entwicklungsabteilung und der Produktionsabteilung.
Die Marketingfuzzies haben lediglich für eine perfekte Vermarktung zu sorgen.

Bei Ubi ist das genau umgekehrt, dort regieren die Vermarkter und die Qualität der Produkte steht hinten an.
Sorry aber für so einen Verein ziehe ich nicht mehr die Kuh vom Eis.

Ich haben fertig !

Gruß

Maddy

I had low expectations for this thread and yet somehow, it is much, much worse. I read the OP again and had to laugh. I don't think many people here are objective when it comes to SH5.

Dead horse coming through - get out of the way... :yawn: