suBB,

I just got done running a handful of tests in RA (11 test runs altogether). I didn't duplicate your exact conditions and they were by no means scientific. I set up an Alfa and a Seawolf heading on reciprocal courses ~20 nm away in the mid Atlantic. I was driving the Alfa, the AI was driving the Seawolf at two knots(set to barrier patrol). Both subs at ~250 feet/75 meters. I tried driving the Alfa towards the Seawolf at both 2 knots and made other runs at 20 knots (not cavitating). Speed made a significant difference in detection range in my tests. During the 20 knot runs the Alfa was picked up ~13.5 miles away by the AI Seawolf. The 2 knot runs reduced the detection distance by ~5 nm.

To my knowledge, you can fiddle with the exact Sound/speed curve of a platform, but all surface/subsurface platforms have them. Sound vs speed factoring in to detection is hard coded in all DW 1.03 hotfix+ versions. A platform not having a curve isn't possible. You can mess with the exact speeds of the curve, though, but they are not optional. I'm going out on a limb here too. :)

PD

Another edit: my tests were done in a surface duct SSP

I believe after a few light tests detection range in RA and AT is fully related to screw speed and level of noise being emited. More to follow. Looking good so far. Castout any comments on RA sound and the upcomming RA final?

Well, I tried this test:

Seawolf (me).
LAIII Albany (test target), about 8700 yards away.

Test begins, Seawolf and Albany both tool along at 5 knots, depth 600 parallel course. Seawolf just catches Albany on broadband (SNR0-1).

Albany goes to 30 knots as ordered ... SNR ... no change.

But that's really funny, because they do have the engine stuff written in the Database (RA used 57 Base Passive SL+16 Thrust SL for the 688I), so the noise level should have changed. But it didn't.

Wierd.

I seem not to have problem detecting enemy sub at high speed and there is a significant difference between moving at 5 knots or 25 knots. Then again I'm playign with a different version that the one you guys use. . . I'll try running some tests

I can't say the technical stuffs about RA. GrayOwl is one of the modder involved in RA. I'm sure he has the capacity to inform you guys.

well I did a simple test.

I played as the 688i with a Victor 3 at 5nm to my 90 degree doing 5 knots and another Victor III to my 270 degree at 5nm doing 25 knots.

I couldn't detect the Victor 3 which was doing 5 knots but I could detect the Victor III which was doing 25 knots though the signal was not very strong but even in STA it showed as a thin line.

So my suggestion to you is that Ra has probably reduced the detection ranges of at least all the submarines pretty substantially. Long range direct contact detection ranges are only possible with the civilian ships.

If you want to compare the noise being radiated with respect to speed make sure both platforms must be detected in the first place.

For example put a Victor 3 which is doing 10 knots at 3nm and put another Victor which is doing 26 knots at 3nm. So make sure that both are detected in the first place to be compared.

Remember that RA is not LWAMI. So LWAMI mindset must go in judging RA. It has got its own estimates with regard to passive detection ranges. I know it's hard not to expect things the way like they were made in LWAMI because we all are used to playing with LWAMI.

Read my post on whining about passive detection range. According to the article which I quoted, a REAL life Victor 3 at flanking speed can only be detected at 1000 yards(0.5nm) in shallow waters of the med. In the quiet norwegian sea direct contact could be establish at several miles if the sub was traveling at 12 knots speed. Several miles everybody that is still pretty short for a direct contact detection range. And it may not be detected on the STA but may very well be in the ITA or even LTA.

Detecting diesel boats passively in RL? You can forget about it. unless you literally bump into it in the ocean you will never be able to detect a submerged diesel boat running on her battery provided that the diesel is well handled(moving at slow speeds/silent speeds).

Couple of things…

1… IIRC you are not using the same version of RA that the rest of got from subguru? If so then its inconclusive and we are comparing and older version (what the rest of us have) to a newer version(what you have).

2.. what ssp type did you use for your test? If surface duct, what side of the layer did you conduct your test?

3.. I think for these tests, we all need to be using the same version of RA, and at least run the same test with the exact same platforms. Once we have a better understanding of what’s going on, I think that will bring us closer to an accurate conclusion.

In so many words, basically what I saw in my test results is the sonar model in the version I have of RA is performing like stock DW.

I know I can’t honestly compare multiple mods, but what is common to all mods is detection, and what should be accurate about detection is it should be directly proportional to speed of ownship, and not based on approaching within some finite distance of another platform.

Some other details about my testing:

Platform A position is stationary(2kts), platform B approached from a perpendicular from 14nm away

RA results: when platform B = 12kts or 5kts, platform A NB detection occurred at 14nm always

LWAMI result 1: when platform B = 12kts, platform A NB detection occurred at 14nm

LWAMI result 2: when platform B = 5 kts(reduced speed), platform A NB detection occurred at 8nm, allowing platform B to transit 6nm before detection occurred.

Going to try using two standard platforms common to RA and LWAMI and see what I get, I understand the akula 2 in RA is still WIP, so using two standard platforms will rule that out.

:ping:

how did you know you were detected by the seawolf, were you using doctrine for the AI to inform you of detection. ?

so, lemme get this straight:

in one test, from 20nm, you approached at 20kts and were detected at 13.5nm

in another test, from 20nm, you approached at 2kts, but were detected at 8.5nm?

I'd like to think you could get closer than 8.5nm at 2kts against the tb-29 :p

q: which version of RA are you running? I have the one that subguru uploaded this weekend. if we are running the same version, I'll try to duplicate your results.

Detection was followed by a change in course and then a TIW from the Seawolf shortly after. The point I was using for detection is when the SW changed course from its set barrier patrol.

An Alfa is one of the noisiest subs in the game going up against one of the best sensors in the game. Doesn't sound terribly off to me.

I'm running the version of RA that Bill uploaded along with the fix. If you PM me your email addy I'd be happy to email you the simple little scenario I'm using.

I know it's probably a silly question, but you are using a fully updated DW with your RA install?

PD

the 2kt afla vs tb-29 is just a wish for something could never happen. :D

i'm using the same version you have, and a clean install of DW @ 1.04

Okay, I edited my scenario so the drivable Alfa is an Akula I Improved. Also, the fast runs are done @17 knots now to prevent cavitation. Speed seems to be a major factor in SL and detection still. I only did four test runs (two slow (2knots still), two fast). The fast detection runs had the AI Seawolf picking me up at 10-10.5 nm. The slow runs had me being picked up at 6-6.5 nm.

PD

You guys are spinning your wheels. If you're concerned about a sensor possibly being hardcapped, then you're not going to confirm or disprove that theory by testing sensors other than the one suspected to be hardcapped and at ranges that are inside the radius of the suspected hardcap.

The only tests you should be running to confirm/disprove SuBB's test are to see whether the pelamida (Akula II was the original "problem" boat) can detect a contact beyond the apparent hardcap of 14nm.

Subb I'm using the version which I share to you via my email. If you are playing with that version rather than the one from the link that Bill has provided then you are testing a different version of RA than the rest of people. Subb do you have playable typhoon? If yes then it's the 'beta' version of the upcoming release.

Preferably with a noisy supertanker or cargo ship at relatively medium or high speed....
Just to make sure....

I did what you suggested. I placed a supertanker at 16nm range with a speed of 25 knots which is its maximum speed so that I made sure that I took no chances.
and
with convergence zone SSP I could right from the beginning detect the supertanker with the Akula II towed array. Not only in NB but also in BB. The signal spike was there in BB. . .

that's a negative :oops: yes i have files, but haven't installed 'yet' and no phoon.. lazy :D

I haven't installed it yet due to the fact i may have to reinstall DW to ensure its clean for RA beta.

soon as i get off my ***, i'll do it and retest