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- SH4 Mods Workshop (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=219)

- - All members read this (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=138774)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

To clarify the ban function, in reality it is brig time for a certain amount of days. Not out right ban. One has to do something very very very stupid to receive that. We have the ability to send members to the showers immediately. In having this function, we can stamp out the baiting and name calling on the spot, close the thread and send the respective offenders to the showers in seconds.

However, I hope Neal is considering this action carefully, especially if/when a seperate ATO forum is created.

Above all, a moderator should be impartial, unbiased and unaffiliated with anything that may call his/her stance into question. Bottom line: They should be beyond reproach.

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Originally Posted by jimbuna

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Originally Posted by John Channing

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Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

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Originally Posted by John Channing

And no one should confuse the generous amount of tolerance and forbearance that has been shown up to now with they way things are going to be in the future.

Nice threat.

You are welcome to interpret it anyway you like.

It was meant only as a statement of fact.

JCC

Possibly or possibly not. But either way, definitely surpassed by this previous one;

Quote:

The podium is open for suggestions and resolutions. Thus far, my vote is for a separate forum concerning the uboats and the fleets. Lets face it, some members just like one or the other. For some reason, it does not mix well in the same pot. I believe these members should be able to enjoy the theater of their choice without having to dig through threads that do not interest them. I'm also casting a vote for the ban function and immediately deploying the ban.

I've sat back most of the day and followed this thread with a great sense of sadness.

I believe there may well be a way out of this mess for us all....and by that I mean the entire community.

Allow me to make a few observations and comments as a means to aide myself:

First point....Read Neals first post

Quote:

Just a friendly reminder, play nice, no sarcastic comments to others, don't start any flame wars.

Q: Check around the threads and see who the instigator is in the vast majority of occasions. The one that enters the room, drops a derogitory or sarcastic comment or even something smelly before beating a hasty exit and watching the ensuing turmoil that unfolds.

Neal himself has already stated that

Quote:

Up through the present day it appears there are a handful of people who look for a chance to take a shot at GW, and that's something I've had to address with a few people several times--subtle verbal attacks, outright abusive name-calling, and posting an image that conveys an insult, and GW cannot restrain from responding

It happens, whether you agree with me or not.

What is the usual consequence ?

A moderator closes the thread down.

I find it sadly strange that they are predominantly U-boat threads in the SH4 area.

Could a conspiracy theory eminate from this ?

Who knows?

I try to adhere to my RL training and instincts and keep an open but inquisitive mind.

A possible question that usually arises from the above is....Could there be an element of bias here in favour of SH4?

Possibly, especially when you consider that those moderating in the SH3 threads all play and spend far more time in the SH4 sections.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not calling any moderators honesty or integrity into question here, but I believe there is reasonable potential for a certain element of doubt when you consider that one of your good selves is a moderator on a certain forum that is seriously anti U-boat.

A forum that has numerous posts that are objectionable and subjective and go so far in places to call Neals honesty and integrity into question.

Never have I witnessed said moderator exercise their authority over there with such speed and zeal in closing down a thread or dampening a brush fire as quickly as I have witnessed on SS.

It would appear that members of said forum can post whatever venomous trash they like with total impunity to any consequences. It's usually accompanied with encouragement and additional ridicule from others.

In fact if I'm going to be challenged shortly after posting I think it also appropriate that I point out that I and others have actually read the odd negative post against SH3 by said inividual.

A question of credibility arises here and does little more than add weight to the concerns of those currently working on GWX4.

What is desperately needed is a moderator that enjoys the confidence and trust of so many instead of the current situation, which IMHO is not tenable.

(Please observe no reference or detail attached from any of our PM's)

Mr Robbins........You come across as so plausible, affable and conciliatory in your posts here.

Think again before continuing with the hypocricy.

What gives you the right to be so dishonest to so many on SS.

I find your attitude an afront to everyones intelligence on SS.

What you post here and what you post on another couple of forums are distinctly different.

Your comments 'from the peanut gallery' are often sadly, a source of entertainment to many.

I especially liked the one when you were boasting how you had fooled everyone into searching for a link which you deliberately pointed to another site where you are actively involved in encouraging people to leave SS.

You can wriggle whichever way you want.....but be the decent human being I'm sure you are, and don't insult the intelligence of myself and so many others here.

I'm deeply saddened at some of the detail I've posted here, mainly because I hoped it wouldn't be necessary to go down this route.

The point I'm trying to make is.....we will never come to a satisfactory conclusion that is acceptable to all if we aren't prepared to be open, honest and transparent with each other from the outset.

SS and it's community is far more important than all the people from either side of this sad divide.

REMEMBER!!......NONE OF US ARE AS CLEVER AS ALL OF US!!

Jim,

We are not here to for character assassinations or pointing out what you believe to be a short fall in someones idea of a good post. We are here attempting to solve a problem and make all happy to be here posting. Please be a voice in answering to the problem and not a continuation of it. Penelope and bigboywooly are helping in creating the answer for all. Follow suit if you will. To be honest, Neal is at his wits end and other life changing things are happening to Neal at present. Let resolve this, move on and allow Neal to sort his future. Neal and moderators are looking of answers to satify all.

Your suggestions and recommendations to further bolster friendship and developing he game are needed here.

Real life interrupted for a few minutes or I would have added the following to my post directed to BBW. Regarding the points made about oneupsmanship, how can you repudiate a statement without knowing what the statement means?

BTW Nitpicking

1.to be excessively concerned with or critical of inconsequential details. –verb (used with object) 2.to criticize by focusing on inconsequential details. –noun 3.a carping, petty criticism. –adjective 4.of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a nitpicker or nitpicking. Also, nit-pick.

is not what I was doing when I answered the question that you asked (the definition of oneupsmanship).

You are correct in one respect though, this whole thing is going nowhere if we can't communicate and honestly listen to one another.

Edit: Once again, I type too slowly. Amen to the "all get along" sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

So we're back to be courteous and respectful, and mind your business :lol:

'Forum Rage' doesn't get anybody anywhere. The contentious issue is still there after all of the insults have been hurled.

Losing a Forum member to an early and untimely death is far more important and significant than any nonsense that goes on between a few modders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

You've used a poor example. Anvart was the first to point out that prop fix was already documented.

I stand by my statement, easily checked by anyone. The point was that a certain person's claimed prediscovery was not published, existed in no present mod or part of a mod and benefited nobody if it ever existed. Therefore no theft could have taken place by skwasjr. He performed a valuable service to SH4 players. The perpetrators of rapacious behavior provided a good example of predation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Sound reasonable to me in so much as the moderator selected would not use the brig function under heated duress thus going full bore if you get my drift. But again, in answer to Penelope for us to act, what can we do other than shut a thread only to have another open? Then said offender really goes off the deep end because then he realizes his goose is cooked anyway. In all reality, the discussions is to use the brig for a 24 hour cool down period. This all might just be in jest because we are attempting to satisfy all on the forums were we do not run into these issues anymore. But, it is at the moderators disposal if needed.

I truly believe that two forums are needed, not just for those in like mind but for other members to have it at their finger tips. It just seems sensible.

Fully agreed TDK, I wasn't being sarcastic :yep:
The cherry picking of posts & events could go on and on, and almost everybody would get dirty so it's absolutely pointless to go further down that road, that's what, 3, 4 years of forum archives ? IMO the thread is about "get over it and be nice", not about "take the occasion to dance and sing in the mud".

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I have left Seth pretty much alone to handle the SH3 forums.

Hey, don't forget about me :lol::lol::D

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Truly, Neal and moderators want an enjoyable time for all on the forums. Signing on to bitter battles is wearing us thin.

Yes, this AVG :yep: I was a member well before I became a Moderator, I signed up here because of Silent Hunter and also war related history. But the experience has become much more than that.

When the opportunity presented itself to moderate, I jumped at it because I hold this place in such high regard, not any particular theatre or game, but SUBSIM itself.

As AVG mentioned we don't see everything that happens, but we do the best we can. Also, if members can work things out themselves that is the best scenario, if they can't then we do our best to get things back on track, sometimes that includes locking ( be it temporary or permanent ) a thread. This can also mean brig time. Nobody gets any joy in doing this, but sometimes it is necessary.

My .02 so far.

RDP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

You've used a poor example. Anvart was the first to point out that prop fix was already documented.

Ok RR, point made. Any idea how to make all happy to be here working together? We really need to move on from this sort of posting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reallydedpoet

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

I have left Seth pretty much alone to handle the SH3 forums.

Hey, don't forget about me :lol::lol::D

Quote:

Truly, Neal and moderators want an enjoyable time for all on the forums. Signing on to bitter battles is wearing us thin.

Yes, this AVG :yep: I was a member well before I became a Moderator, I signed up here because of Silent Hunter and also war related history. But the experience has become much more than that.

When the opportunity presented itself to moderate, I jumped at it because I hold this place in such high regard, not any particular theatre or game, but SUBSIM itself.

As AVG mentioned we don't see everything that happens, but we do the best we can. Also, if members can work things out themselves that is the best scenario, if they can't then we do our best to get things back on track, sometimes that includes locking ( be it temporary or permanent ) a thread. Sometimes this can also mean brig time. Nobody gets any joy in doing this, but sometimes it is necessary.

My .02 so far.

RDP

Sorry RDP. I forgot. See how much time I spend there? I do not have too, you and Seth are there. But I was told a while back that I'm never there so 'shuuuuddduuuppp'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

In some respects it is about getting over it and being nice but more importantly, it is about getting both theaters set up to do their thing in peace. That is all. We want everyones opinion. We want ideas to mull over and digest. Resolution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

You've used a poor example. Anvart was the first to point out that prop fix was already documented.

I stand by my statement, easily checked by anyone........The perpetrators of rapacious behavior provided a good example of predation.

You stand by it, while I ask everyone to check for themselves and decide. Here it is:http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=138212&page=2 the fun starts on pg2.

The facts are there.

While this post is not in the spirit of this thread it does highlight another point we have made here. You posted this http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...5&postcount=98 and accused, openly, of GWX using pack tactics to derail the thread, prompting a reply that needed to bring to the attention of other members the untruth contained within. Again, thank you for proving another valid issue the GWX team has, we react when needed, we do not attack without provocation, whereas you seem content to continue to bring assumed GWX behaviour to this thread.

EDIT - @ AVG

Typing as you posted, sorry. I have made my point and will cease discussion of this issue as I think it has been resolved adequately.

That's the point exactly, both theaters are doing good and living along just fine, but individuals don't. I already posted my view on that, a lot of people are lucky I don't have the red button :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

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Originally Posted by John Channing

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Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

And no one should confuse the generous amount of tolerance and forbearance that has been shown up to now with they way things are going to be in the future.

Nice threat.

You are welcome to interpret it anyway you like.

It was meant only as a statement of fact.

JCC

Possibly or possibly not. But either way, definitely surpassed by this previous one;

Quote:

Just a friendly reminder, play nice, no sarcastic comments to others, don't start any flame wars.

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I am well versed on Neals current personal position and I wish him all the the good fortune in the world. But this is not the issue here.

What saddens me is this is precisely the sort of dismissive response I anticipated.

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Provocation and baiting come from both.

Everything else you said is ok AVG... except that ^

No it doesn't. It comes from a hardcore who do not want U-Boat fans or U-Boat people like the Grey Wolves in the SH4 section, that message has been plain. I'm not saying that myself or my friends are perfect and saints... far from it... but one thing myself and others don't do is come here deliberately looking for a fight... but when they happen there is reputation to think of... and if somebody posts things to make me or my friends look bad...

I accept that by answering these people we are fanning the flames... trying to put the perverbial fire out with petrol. But if I came here and said that you were...I don't know... lets say I came and quietly and discreetly questioned your sexuality... You knew what I was talking about and came in and said, "no you are totally wrong and bang out of order" then bam I post back, you post back! Before you know it... its erupted. Versuvius has blown! This is what has been happening.

Its tiresome and pointless. More to the point, its downright frightening to me, things like this, post exchanges that are heated scare me because I never know what I am going to see next and I am afraid what people will think of me or say to me...

So why do we come here if we like U-Boats then??
LIke I have stated before I enjoy SH3 and SH4... SH3 more so yes... Grey Wolves is coming to SH4. What is built for SH4 will be released and it will be for everybody, no strings attached just as it was in the past. We all now have a vested insterest in SH4 all of us... everybody reading or posting in this thread, its the main reason I have came here to participate despite my unease... we approach from a different angles... but what we are hoping to do, is provide a choice, an alternative. Today you can sail a Tambor Class... tomorrow, you can sail a Type IXC... In an absolutely stunning graphical engine... The possibilities... wow! Who knows... somebody might create a mod where you sail as a British sub... maybe an Italian sub... where does it stop?

That has got to be better than saying its our way or none at all and petitions and what not. We (U-Boat fans) are not the enemies of SH4, we are not the enemies of the PTO but sometimes are treated like we are worse yet... at times, I have started to believe it... you guys arent' the allies and we aren't the axis... I think we are engrossed in our simulations a little too far.

For my point of view... I don't mind the PTO I'd rather be on the conning tower of a IXC than a Gato... yes!

BUT!

I don't want to rubbish anybody's fun... and I sure as hell do not want to see the obliteration or subjecation of the Fleet Boat element.

One thing we all have in common, we all have a vested interest in SH4