Hmm - I still don't get it in relation to the topic. A man is trying to harm you, your family, or even a complete stanger, and you should let it happen?

Don't get me wrong or anything - I hope to live my entire life never having to pull a trigger against a man, but you must also understand that you must be prepared to do it mentally as well. That may be a foreign idea to you, but I think you can describe it best as a neccesary evil that probably will never be fully realized.

That is the difference between you and me, I have the option where you probably do not, even if it is an option I hope to never exercise. You however, will have your status changed to victim and statistic - and these are two status's that I have prepared for to never have attached to my name.

I never fully understood the need for a victim to remain a victim too. They would rather be raped or murdered again rather than give up their victim status. I understand it is a phycological problem, but even so, I think it is a rather pathetic phych problem. Just my 2 cents.

-S

What I was trying to say from the beginning is:
IF POSSIBLE, incapacitate the guy until you put him into submission or tie him!!!
Shoot him in the legs or arms or theraten him, BUT IF possible, do not kill the man...
I understand you may think I'm nuts, I'm just being Christian Orthodox, and by that I mean I will try all or any available options at a given time to avoid any conflict....:smug:

Two problems with that - Being CHristian Orthodox, the bible tells you to defend yourself and allows you to kill in defense of you and your loved ones, or even a complete stranger, but not to 'murder'. The only time you should ever lay down your arms in defense is only when your challenger is challenging you over your faith, in which case you must be willing to lay down your life for it.

Second problem - dead means he is never ever going to hurt you again. Period. Or anyone else for that matter. Over here, there are countless stories of murders getting out and murdering again! What was the point of a jail sentence? If they do it for sexual pleasure, phycologists will even tell you that they can never be cured, so what are we doing with these people anyway?

I could open a whole can of worms with this thread, but if your assailent is dead, you may have even saved the life of many other people.

-S

PS. Do you know that a wounded attacker over here can sue you too? Crazy! Not sure what half brained attorney came up with the idea of sueing victims for defending themselves, but I guess you have many half crazed attorneys that don't care where their money comes from.

PPS. Dead - and you even save the state millions of $$$ for there is no longer a need for a trial nor is there no longer a need to keep this person locked up like an animal for their entire prison sentence.

PPPS. I have no sympathy for ones that would harm others for pleasure or personal gain - the thought is just plain sick.

Sorry, cannot agree...
In the old testament, you are [kind of] allowed to kill a man in self defense, but not in the new testament... Many shouls have a chance to redeem theirselves, and, who are we people to decide of life and death... It's easter soon, that should tell you much... Jesus Christ could have a whole legion of angels to guard him, but he gave himself for us TO LIVE, otherwize, God could just send a whole squad to finish the job killing everybody... That tells us something: forgiveness...
And before I go to sleep, final note: I would support a kill in self defense ONLY IF THERE IS NO OTHER WAY!
I hope I'm being a man enough...

Should we let AL handle this aspect of it or do you want me to jump in on this?

Exactly my point. We finially see eye to eye. If you think for a second I would shoot someone for stepping on my toe, you are wrong. No other way means imminent danger. Period. I thought you were in disagreement on this which is why I write above what I do.

-S

PS. Also non of the above suggests that I would not forgive someone for hurting someone else, but you can bet I would step in to stop it if I could. And there is a big difference between forgiveness and toleration. I won't tolerate it.

In the realm of self defense you never ever shoot to kill. You are shooting to prevent the comission of a crime. If by shooting him and he dies well, I reckon he should've stayed home. If the hit is non-lethal but it stopped him from harming you and yours then you may find yourself having to restrain him (cuffs) and render first aid. If you can't restrain him then get away and call the police. Because if while you are puting a bandaid on him he may just latch on to you and strangle the livin' crap outta ya.


Oh, never tell a cop you shot someone to kill him. You shot him to keep him from doing harm to you or your family.

If I remember correctly if the crimminal has a weapon, the ability and intent then shoot'em

Example: a person comes in your home with a tire iron (weapon), looks like he can swing it and hit you (ability), and says he going to bash you head in (intent) though breaking into your home could be considered intent as well. Or even after you told him to get out and he doesn't is intent too. Then pick-up those smoke wagons and get to shoot'in boy.

Never talk to a cop right afterwards either to much is going on with you physically, mentally and emotionally for you to get your statement straight. give it atleast 24 hours to collect your thoughts to recall the event correctly.

Agree 100%.:smug:
@Rockstar: Agree 100%:smug:

Recommended reading
 

Anyone who owns a firearm for personal protection should own and read

"In the Gravest Extreme Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection" by Massad F. Ayoob

You can get it from any large book seller. In this book Mr. Ayoob addresses the legal and moral issues that we have been discussing here.

Mr. Ayoob has frequently been called as an "expert witness" in personal self defense shooting cases.

Be warned thought, he tells it like it is and the moral and legal aftermath of a justified self defense shooting is not a good thing to go through.

I highly recommend this book.

I'm 19.

:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o
Hell, I'll be 20 on the August 13th...
Jeez, I never thought you could be younger than, say, 25?:hmm:
A clear thinker... I like that...:rock:

... some of you bleeding hearts would change your mind when faced with a life or death situation

... some of you bleeding hearts sit back and think that an attacker will stop to listen to reason "Oh .. If only we could give them a chance to be heard on whats troubling them"

... some of you bleeding hearts believe that mankind is "Good"

... some of you bleeding hearts would continue giving money to a lost cause just to help your own conscience

... some of you bleeding hearts would kill a righteous man to keep your rosy outlook on life

... some of you bleeding hearts think I'm the bad guy cause I'm not gonna give in to your way of bleeding hearts and you will persecute me for it

... some of you bleeding hearts would stop me from protecting me and my family to help a murderer or a thief or rapist or child molester

... some of you bleeding hearts will take money from me against my will to help a criminal and hide behind a legal action to justify yourselves

... some of you bleeding hearts will not read all this and sit back and think "He wasn't speaking of me" or "How dare he talk to me like this I'm going to do what I can to stop him"

... some of you bleeding hearts may thank me one day for saving your life...but I doubt it ... cause it's already happened to me

... some of you bleeding hearts are as bad as the ones you pretend to protect

Fire arms for all !!...Lets Party!!!

:sunny:
Happy Easter:nope:

Old American expression "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6"

movies from hollywood are different as reality:damn:

This one is really dragging on, isn't it?