Guys,
First off thanks for all the effort being put into this mod. I've been following the posts from the beginning and am very excited about what's going on here. The stock damage modelling/death scene is a joke to all of us.
In regards to the proposed crew fatigue/cohesion/stress changes personally I find it all pretty confusing as proposed. I think I'd like to stay with something a bit more straightforward. I've been using Beery's RUB since its inception and have gotten it to work pretty well at least for me. I know everyone has their own style of play so I guess I'd vote for two seperate mods as has recently been discussed here. One containing all the damage modelling and the other strictly relating to the crew. That way it gives all of us an option.
BTW I like the "Die Hard" name.

The Die Hard version is just the damage model only; the crew management is almost basically stock, or RuB or whatever you wish to place in there.

Simple and to the point. Long drawn out death with no baby sitting the crew (well some).

I do make the crew fatigue slower than normal and faster under stress. You only need to change stuff around during an intense battle for survival, or about after a few days at sea under high TC.

Not bad, some neat ideas placed in. I see you made it so one bow torpedo tube will survive better than the rest get destroyed in descending order. Gives a reason to fight on.

But is this a bug? Maybe it has no effect.

[Quarters1]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=40.000000
HitPoints=770
Destructible=No
Armor Level=5
Critic Flotation=0.01
Critical=No
Effect1=#sink_bubbles, 95
Effect2=#dc_bubbles, 30
FloodingTime=190
CargoType=None

[Quarters2]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=40.000000
HitPoints=770
Destructible=No
Armor Level=-5 ------> Do you mean +5, and not -5? Nicht gut. A -1 would use the parent file's armor value in sub.zon
Critic Flotation=0.01
Critical=No
Effect1=#sink_bubbles, 95
Effect2=#dc_bubbles, 30
FloodingTime=190
CargoType=None

Jungman

I agree with you totally, release your version and if it satisfies my long wanting desire to have better death, I will die a happy man.

You have discovered the way to improve the damage model and that was my main hopes for this project.

Yes, the crew fatigue models were getting confusing and as stated, we will never get a perfect one. We really do not need to compensate as much now thus the crew penalties was getting to be a dead horse.

I agree that a stock damage die hard like you said.

I know how to tweak the crew to my personal setting and maybe its just a case of showing what to tweak should people want different models.

I also agree about the hull factor.

At the end of the day, this is what most people wanted and that was no quick death but it was a death.

The problem hull integrity is about to be history and we should all have the ability to mix this mod with other major mods i.e. we should aim at not restricting or confusing players.

To restrict it to 1 or have to make loads of version is just going to cause work and we modders never get to enjoy the game.

Go for it

How do others feel?

1. Just the damage release of die hard and we each adapt our own or use the existing fatigue models i.e. we go with what Jungman wants.

2. Spend loads more time trying to flog a no longer needed dead horse.

I will maybe post a summary up about the findings on the fatigue issues up to date so that people may search at a later date.

I say go go go and release, I can then start a campaign feeling quite comfortable about this game.

Most of all it is no longer this type of frustrating testing.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3...uter4ri6bb.gif

Jungman is there anything you want me to do or are you happy with everything. P.s. It was a pleasure to see this project through and I am so glad you looked into things and steered us to success.

I am happy with the end result and just eagerly await the release.

p.s. I hope nobody thinks I am aborting the crew management project and if anyone wants assistance to get a system that works for them, I will always answer questions based on our findings.

gouldjg,

I still like the idea of the 24 hour crew, but as you and jungman have already stated, lets just concentrate on finishing a good damage model so that we can release it. Anyone who wants to add their own fatige model can still do so.

So question: without the fatigue model, I am under the impression that basic.cfg is no longer needed to be released, corect?

The only necessary files are the individual u-boat .zon files, en_menu.txt, zones.cfg, and menu_1024_768.ini, right?



And I understand it was just a joke (or as jungman said, maybe not), but how about we strike a balance between 250hp and 2500hp?? :roll:

I think Jungman made some changes to his cfg though I am presuming he wants to stick close to stock original. We will have to wait and see.

The menu ini file is optional because as Jungman later discovered, men were being moved into compartments and he had to spend time fidling around.

I will probaly still try and get a 24 hr system up and running for my campaign. I just do not think that many people will go for it as opposed to the longer versions which require less micromanagement but more of a qualification and promotion management.

There are too many preferences to please when it comes to the man management side of the game. From previous mods, it always throws out lots of disagreements and sometimes a lot of bickering over what is at the end of the day, a game.

I like Kaa's model but I went on another track with damage i.e. the only way I thought damage could be increased, was reducing crew ability to cope with it or by flooding. For this Kaa's model would not have enabled us to do this.

It is all irrelevant now because Jungmans discoveries can work on all models. The rest is for the big mods to implement.

All in all a good few discoveries were made on this thread. To me its a job well done by all and a great learning experience which enable me to customise my own game style.

What I set of do do a week ago is almost over and done with. I cannot moan one little bit.

I LOVE the "DIE HARD" title and also think that it would dodge the "Hollywood" perception tendency somewhat.

Oh I can't wait for the next version to be released!!!! :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:

The damage/death story that Jungman posted is great...this is exactly the type of thing that I've wanted SH3 to be capable of. I agree the damage componet should be a separate mod. I've also gotten very comfortable with the RUb fatque mod and wouldn't want to give that up. I really don't think I'd enjoy having to micro-manage the crew, especially at high TC. Thanks for all your efforts...you guys have really come up with what will probably be a classic mod for SH3.

Hey guys, any progress?? :roll:

If this damage mod turns out half as good as it sounds you guys have a fan for life. I used the Hollywood mod from the beginning and knew what a big difference that made for gameplay(including flying crewmen)and this one sounds like Hollywood was childs play.

Keep it up and thanks for all the hard work!

:lurk:

I took a break for a two days. I got a horrible chest cold in my lungs and head. I hope it is not that dreaded bird flu virus H5N1.

I hope to kick out a decent model soon. Better to have it tested than release a buggy version of the damage model.

This mod is really promising... :)

That bird flu stuff scares the hell out of me. Glad to see your ok though.

Just don't bloody die

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: .

I managed to get a fee hex editor xvi32 as i am curious about this hex stuff and want to see how it all works.

I can open and see your change in the zon but have no clue how i am supposed to edit it properly so am leaving it all to you.

I like it though cos it shows text aswell.

Any tips for me should I wish to tweak myself at a later date :up:

Anyway back to job in hand

To be quite honest I think I will wait for your release. Like others have said and I very much agree, this should blow hollywood out of the water.

I am not upset one little bit, less work for me now (was getting divorced by wife at one point). All i want is a decent game like everyone else here.

I could never really start a campaign because I hated the current damage model. Everything else was fine though for me personally, I want the exploding men of course and when I update my graphics card, I want to play with smoke and fire.

Like everyone here Jungmann, I am eagerly awaiting your work as it fact based and has alway been groundbreaking for this game.

Just Don't Bloody Die Man

p.s. I have sussed the hex stuff out now (all i had to do was click on it and heres me going to edit line etc doh :-j

Glad you're feeling a bit better Jungman.

Keep up the good work and thanks from a non modder for all the effort you're all putting into making SH3 even better.

Sorry to come to this so late, but I have to say it-he didn't mispell anything. Only we Yanks use the 'z' there-to a Brit (and his address does say Manchester, UK) it IS spelled 'organise/organising/organization'.

Just like 'tyres', 'pyjamas' and of course 'honour' and 'harbour'.

Oh, yeah, the topic...looks good so far. Can't wait to see how it all comes out.

In addition, we smoke fags, which means we smoke cigarettes and not the US alternative to using a Magnum 45 in a gay village.

:up:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3...uter4ri6bb.gif

Well, I wasn't going to mention the part about having a bonnet where your car's hood should be, and a hood up on the roof, and a boot for a trunk, but you made me. Also, if you're ever in the US of A and want to tell a girl you're coming to visit, don't EVEN say "I'll come 'round tomorrow and knock you up".

You should never smoke a fag with a 45 magnum-the gun has to be cleaned and it's a waste of perfectly good lead.
:-j

Jungmann
Can I take it that you are producing a .zon special pack to fix a vast number of Damage related topics?

I ask this, as I want to concentrate on a shift model for myself and maybe one or two other players.

I agree that some of the stuff we have discovered is not to everyone’s taste however we all agree that it is best that a Super advanced damage model is best for everyone.

What I need to know is what are you planning to produce?

Are you producing a damage model incorporated into a fatigue mod or are you building a damage mod only?

Do you need me for anything or are you quite ok to do this on your own or with another party?

I feel that it is best for one person to concentrate on a model that everyone benefits from i.e. You deal with much more than I do and will probably do a better job.

I usually get .zon files and configure the Zones.cfg to suit my taste.

p.s. are you planning on playing with the ships .zon files so we could possibly get one or two of those blasted ships filled with barrels that take 5 torps.

Maybe even make the carrier and battleships that much more tougher?

I know your mind is ticking over on what to do and what not to do but were here to listen to your ideas.

Looking forward to your first Die Hard

Gouldjg, just a thought since you guys are getting deeper and deeper into
damage modelling is it possible when taking damage to have the fuel tanks vulnerable to damage/leakage and simultaneously show a greater fuel consumption. I'm just thinking in terms of better imersion and more potential difficulties for a captain to deal with should he survive an attack. Probably just a pipe dream but I thought I'd bring it up.