![]() |
Quote:
|
Just read that the chap that was shot had eleven kids!
And they talk about Muslims breeding to take over the world. :doh: |
Terrible but not unexpected after all. Christ, eleven kids? These people live in the old world so it must be God's will then.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
I wonder how much government support he was getting? |
Interesting development in this story. All the defendants were acquitted in Portland, Oregon today.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37795012 I guess it's open season on federal land and armed insurrection. :o |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Artists impression of polling stations on the 8th November. |
Quote:
Oregon does things their way :yep: |
interesting, not sure but maybe jury nullification came into play in this case. Also too the fat lady hasnt started singing yet, I heard Nevada want a piece of them next.
|
While i tend to be Law & order kind of guy, I also grew up west of Colorado Springs where the Pike National forest was my back yard. Over the years I've watched the feds "administer" federal lands out here in the western U.S. and I pretty much have to agree with the Bundy's on this one, the State and local governments should be the ones to administer those lands. I find it hard to believe that politicians & bureaucrats residing in a city 2500 miles away really understand the land.
|
Quote:
I think it is a case of jury nullification and i am against that. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
It would be nice if we had all the facts of the case. It does not sound like they were over charged and does seem to be ample evidence that they did what they did. It was on the new for many days. I hope it was not a case of jury nullification. That can be a terrible thing that can further undermine the confidence in our justice system (which has been strained recently). |
Quote:
"It may not be amiss, here, Gentlemen, to remind you of the good old rule, that on questions of fact, it is the province of the jury, on questions of law, it is the province of the court to decide. But it must be observed that by the same law, which recognizes this reasonable distribution of jurisdiction, you have nevertheless a right to take upon yourselves to judge of both, and to determine the law as well as the fact in controversy. On this, and on every other occasion, however, we have no doubt, you will pay that respect, which is due to the opinion of the court: For, as on the one hand, it is presumed, that juries are the best judges of facts; it is, on the other hand, presumbable, that the court are the best judges of the law. But still both objects are lawfully, within your power of decision." |
It is a contentious issue that's for sure. I just have personal dislike for it as it can be abused and there is no oversight. But that's just my own opinion.
|
I think the lack of oversight is the whole point. A free people must never give up their right to self determination and that extends to the freedom to judge their peers as they see fit.
|
Quote:
As for oversight, I think jury nullification is actually the citizens way to oversee the justice system. Case in point: the 18th amendment was repealed partially due to 60% of prosecutions involving alcohol being nullified. |
Quote:
When most people think of jury nullification, it is in the context of the jury acquitting a defendant who is technically guilty of violating the law, but the jury feels that the law is either unjust or the law is being applied unfairly in this case. That's all well and good and many think it is a noble cause. But that is only one side of Jury Nullification. Jury Nullification can also be represented when the jury convicts a defendant who is technically not guilty of violating the law, but the jury thinks the defendant is "getting off on a technicality" or the jury feels that an example needs to be made of the defendant. Consider this example: you are on trial for shooting an intruder and your claim is self defense. Suppose the jury feels that there have been too many instances of people shooting people and claiming self defense and that "something has to be done about it" and chose to use you as an example and votes to convict. That is also a form of jury nullification, albeit a less common form. It is commonly stated that jury nullification as a venue of sending a message to the judiciary or the prosecution about potentially unjust laws. However, this is only true if the judiciary or the prosecution knows the reason for the acquittal/conviction. A jury does not render their verdict by stating "your honor, we find the defendant not guilty because we are invoking our right of jury nullification". No. The jury renders their verdict by stating "we find the defendant not guilty". The judiciary and prosecution does not know if the jury means 1. That the defendant is truly not guilty 2. That the prosecution was unsuccessful in proving the guilt of the defendant 3. That the jury feels that the law is unjust 4. That the jury feels that the law is being applied unfairly Since the rational of the jury is not questioned, there is no message that can be used to change laws. Petitioning the legislation would be a better way of getting laws changed. Then there is the lack of oversight. There is a real risk of discrimination in the decision of jury nullification. A jury may decide to acquit a white woman by invoking jury nullification, but another jury may convict a black man for the very same crime. How can the judiciary ensure that citizens are treated fairly if juries have the uncontrolled and unsupervised ability to, at their whim, selectively apply the same law to different people. The whole purpose of law is that all the citizens know what to do and not do. How can a jury of laypeople determine if a law is unjust? What you are getting are some people's opinion whether a law is unjust, which is not the same thing as the law actually being unjust. A law really can't be unjust if it is considered unjust in one situation but considered just in other situations. If a law is unjust, the law needs to be changed, not arbitrarily nullified. If the law is just but being implemented unfairly, there is the appeal process. In theory, jury nullification sounds like a great idea. But the reality does not sound good in my opinion. Allowing 12 randomly selected people to decide (emotionally?) to selectively apply the law, to me, is a bad idea. |
I always thought the conspiracy charge was a stretch but how can they possibly be found not guilty of the weapons charges when there is hours of video footage of them toting guns on federal property? :hmmm:
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:37 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2025 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.