People fight for bad causes all the time. I sure many fell for the propaganda and many got trapped into a cause they had no choice but to fight for. I think most of us would agree the men that fought were brave and heroic, but they still fought for a Nazi system. I'm sure the masses doing the fighting didn't have a clue how evil the system was. However, had Germany won the war, I'm sure they would've enjoyed the spoils and victory with no complaint.

Sure they did, they had no choice and were given terms of unconditional surrender which they accepted.

So what...

That's what I thought. :hmmm:

Either way, Tribesman has gone rouge over it.

Does that count for signatures as well?
http://gyazo.com/efd19bd1a22e1402fc418e6efa03a325.png

And you asked twice to not being called a troll?
For this crap you should get an extra avatar and title...

Sounds like a reasonable signature. :hmmm:

Cybermat47 said it. Complain to Cybermat47 about it. It's not my fault I just repost the news!
:nope:

So besides getting him wrong on purpose to suit your crusade, you even need to wear this as a sig?

I was right after all, you are a troll.

How do you mean by this? That is a word-for-word quote.

"The evidence introduced against Speer under Counts Three and Four relates entirely to his participation in the slave labour programme." (emphasis mine)
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/judspeer.asp

Count Three included:

A) MURDER AND ILL-TREATMENT OF CIVILIAN POPULATIONS OF OR IN OCCUPIED TERRITORY AND ON THE HIGH SEAS

Was Speer involved in that? Almost certainly not.

B) DEPORTATION FOR SLAVE LABOR AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES OF THE CIVILIAN POPULATIONS OF AND IN OCCUPIED TERRITORIES

Definitely.

C) MURDER AND ILL-TREATMENT OF PRISONERS OF WAR, AND OF OTHER MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE COUNTRIES WITH WHOM GERMANY WAS AT WAR, AND OF PERSONS ON THE HIGH SEAS

Was Speer involved in that? Seemingly not.

D) KILLING OF HOSTAGES

Was Speer involved in that? Almost certainly not?

E) PLUNDER OF PUBLIC AND PRIVATE PROPERTY

Was Speer involved in that? I don't know.

F) THE EXACTION OF COLLECTIVE PENALTIES

Was Speer involved in that? I don't know.

G) WANTON DESTRUCTION OF CITIES, TOWNS, AND VILLAGES AND DEVASTATION NOT JUSTIFIED BY MILITARY NECESSITY

Was Speer involved in that? Seemingly not.

(H) CONSCRIPTION OF CIVILIAN LABOR

Yes.

I) FORCING CIVILIANS OF OCCUPIED TERRITORIES TO SWEAR ALLEGIANCE TO A HOSTILE POWER

Was Speer involved in that? Possibly.

J) GERMANIZATION OF OCCUPIED TERRITORIES

Possibly. I'm not sure.

The point is that even under Charge Number Three Speer was only accused of crimes directly related to the slave labor. Otherwise he likely would have been executed along with the others.

Your trolling is pathetic:haha:
The statement gives no credit to you as the leading Nazis in power at the end of the war were all in power as Nazis throughout the war and before.
It was from start to finish a Nazi regime, and the submarine built by the slave labour was a Nazi submarine, it is simply undeniable.
You really have no point.
Which raises the question Wastegate, under how many different names have you come back to this forum simply to troll?

Problems with English again?:rotfl2:

Sailor Steve.
Those you missed
A. yes
C. yes
D. yes
E. yes
F. yes
You seem to be neglecting the scope of his ministry and the sheer numbers of concentration camps it utilised.
Though E is outside of that

I want to see proof for every one. Saying "yes" doesn't make it fact.

:nope:

Since you have taken just one day in one single topic to show yourself as having absolutely no credibility, what you want is irrelevant:har:

If all those were true Speer would have been executed along with the rest of them. I at least went to the trouble of looking something up. We've reached a point where you need to start actually showing things. But then you rarely do.

I've asked you once to play nice. This is getting dangerously near the edge.

Do you have proof of this allegation? If so, please show it. If not, mention it again at your own peril.

What rest of them?
How many in that particular trial got the death penalty(not counting those who died or those aquitted) ?

Yep, Yale is handy

So where do you want to start?
(A)?
where exactly did these civilian slaves come from?
Though of course that doesn't count the german slaves as they would be under the persecution murder and mistreatment on grounds of religion politics or ethnicity bit.
(C)?
How many POWs were used as slaves?

(D)?
take just mittlewerke or the atlantic wall, how many reprisal murders were there for "sabotage"?

(F)?
Collective? so if for example Luxembourg as an occupied territory is forced to hand over 100,000 slaves is that not a collective penalty?

As for (E)? well that started in Czechoslovakia and speers ministry carried on doing it throughout the war.

If you want to get really into it on the depths on Nazi depravity how many of his Wehrwitschaftsfuhrers engaged in human experimentation in the concentration camps while working on Sheers ministries projects

You're just asking more questions here. Supply some substance to support your previous statements.

:know:

Enough already! it was a NAZI u-boot! One of the simple joys of argument, rhetoric and logic is to hang the OP with his own petard...so to speak. Both world wars were fought under the auspices of the intellectual philosophy of Von Clausewitz in his post-mortemly published opus ON WAR, now required reading at all US military academies. "War is not an independent phenomenon, but the continuation of politics by other means. Consequently, the main lines of every major strategic plan are largely political in nature, and their poitical character increases the more the plan applies to the entire campaign and to the whole state." The uboot course de guerre of both world wars was the only strategy worthy of the name for Germany in both of its world wars in terms of theory, materiel and global strategy. As such, any strategic implementation of the politics of the German state in WWII especially of the Kriegsmarine would have been indisputably NAZI to der führer, his principle miñion and successor Donitz, and every one of the all-volunteer, highly propagandized 'itchy necked' UBootwaffen, happily avoiding the consequences of the Eastern front and eating sumptuously off of suitably decorated NAZI crockery,- compared to rest of the shortchanged Third Reich. All parties understood they were vital and primary functionaries of the most productive (operation Monsun)offensives into the Pacific as an extension of Nazi and Axis might. Of the good brave Nazis on the U-boot in question, 23 survived as did the Kapitänleutnant Pich, who was a POW until 1947 and died at age 82 in 1997.:smug::salute:

Oh, I accept it, all right. And when news outlets refer to a U-boat as a "Nazi sub", that's how we will post it. Because that's what they have been called since the '40s. Deal with it.

Oh dear oh dear, you are not very good at this are you:nope:
The substance is in the questions:know:
Do you perhaps understand the legal concept set in Leipzig way back in '21?
It applies to that nice german who made peace at the end of the war, for all the time that he was a raving Nazi doing exactly the same job throughout the war that he held at the end of the war.:yep:

Especially the part that quotes the man on the spot as saying it was solely about slave labor. Nice of you to ignore that part.

Was Speer charged with murder and mistreatment. If murder, he would have been executed. No, he was charged with transporting and using slave labor.

I thought we weren't talking about slave labor. Was Speer charged with anything else?

Was Speer involved with any of that? Was he charged with any of that?

Did you miss the part where I said "I don't know"? You do like to have your little game, don't you? And you accuse other people of trolling.

Sorry, but your word for anything is no longer acceptable. Citation needed.

I don't know. Why don't you tell me? And while your at it, reread what the man said about it being only about slave labor. That was all I said. You turned it into a major production. It seems to me that what you really like is kicking people whenever possible.