Hard to believe!

Tribesman - see your doing it again - trying to steer the direction of the discussion onto people - vs the FACT that Islam advocates violent death for many reasons.

I know you would rather we divert into other things. But the fact is Islam IS a barbaric religion. And the fact is you now have a "moderate" muslim who is now a perfect example of why MODERATE and ISLAM do not belong in the same sentence. Unless you would like to claim that he only butchered his estranged wife with a MODERATE amount of BARBARITY.

Poor Skybird isn't able to identify scholarly critics of Raddatz :rotfl:
Hey I thought it would be easy for him by mainly focusing on the criticisms levelled by German proffesors of Oriental studies , so self assured is poor skybird that he cannot even see that far .
Wow , I really never considered that using a selection of criticisms that the academic world has levelled at radditz recent work in response to a question inviting any criticisms of his work would put you into such a hissy fit .




Just because someone describes themselves as a "moderate" does not mean they are .
I suppose in a way that means that if you go to the Imperial Klans membership page and fill out the needed form that declares that you are a Christian and not a racist then you really are a christian non bigotted KKK member , because hey if they say they are christian and not racist its gotta be true eh .

I asked you before and ask again, can you please identify them and their criticism?




THANK YOU! Finally we agree.:yeah:

Not in the slightest .
Ok I realised you had a problem with your phobia , but I didn't realise you had a problem with reading too .

OK reading problems again , for their criticisms I suggest you look at the post where I mention criticisms levelled at Raddatz works .
As for identifying them , where would be the fun in that ? I want to see how deep Skybird will dig himself a into hole first .

You stumbled and fell, its part of growing up.:yep:

Could you indentify the critics of Raddatz and their arguments?

EDIT. Skybird is not coming back to this thread so you can start telling.

Sounds like a load to me... :ping:

I bet this is his source.:yeah:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Peter_Raddatz

http://translate.google.com/

Now that is curious , it isn't on the English version .
So then HT are those criticisms similar to those I posted or are there some new ones ?

No use trying to squirm out, you havent posted anything.

Every academic will get critics if he ever produces anything, thats kind of the point.
Could you be more specific about those damning critics you have spoken about?
The people that have presented them and their arguments?

Tribesman - you stated that "just because someone claims to be XXXXX - doesn't mean they are". Good Point. And in many cases your correct.

However - we are not talking about many cases - we are talking about ISLAM. The facts are there is no such thing as moderate islam - because islam as a theology has never progressed beyond barbarity.

Comparing Xtianity and Islam is like comparing apples are oranges. Islam says kill the unbeliever. Xtianity says show the unbeliever the way - and allow God to convict their soul and heart according to His Will. If your wronged as a Christian - your to turn the other cheek and let God take vengeance as he sees fit - if your wronged as a muslim - your allowed to "smite the neck" of your foe.

The key here is there is no love and compassion and forgiveness in the islamic faith. Instead - its barbarity disguised as theology, with absolutely no redeeming qualities about it. Even its "moral code" is highly contradictory - since as person your encouraged to remain celibate if possible - and if not to only have sex with your spouse - but yet if you die a martyr for Allah your going to go to paradise where you get what - 72 virgins? Well if your not allowed to do anything with them due to Allah's moral code - what the devil is the point. Its simply a flawed theology that was created to rationalize the barbarity of a man who tried to be a warlord, and has been latched onto by many power hungry people since.

Show me something MODERATE about the Quran - and then we will discuss it. But the fact is - you cant. Instead you have to try to discredit the detractors and divert attention away from the real discussion.

We have seen the murder of muslim women in the soccer stadium. They use them for suicide bombers. They chop off their heads when their "honor" is tainted. They do not not seem to like women very much which makes me wonder if there is some latent homosexual hatred for women in their culture. And what? They want 72 virgins when they die? So they can chop their heads off too? Now, let me see here. If I had to choose either becoming a muslim or joining Anton Lavey's church, I guess I would have to join up with Anton's group because at least they are not murdering people on a regular basis. The religion needs a major reformation or I for one will never ever trust a muslim in my neck of the woods.

You might owe an apology to the almost 4,000 US military personnel who are Muslim.

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?s...&article=48781

I am sure that Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan's family would be interested in hearing your opinions on how untrustworthy Muslims are. You can't ask Kareem himself as he was killed in Iraq 6 Aug 07. This Bronze Star and Purple Heart awardee was 14 years old when 911 happened. He waited until the first opportunity to join the US Army... To fight for, and ultimately die for, his country (which happens to be your country also).

I happen to know some very fine Muslims who I would have no problem entrusting my life to.

Please don't brand all Muslims on the actions of a relative few. Almost 20% of the world's population is Muslim (1.2 billion).

It is true that there are bad people who happen to call themselves Muslims. But there are many many more good people who ARE Muslims.

Sorry for the soapbox, but statements like yours sometimes get to me.

I wonder how how they are perceived by most Islamic scholars.
My concern with muslims in the military has to do with these types of things.


Little things for someone that hasnt been to military but "special accommodations" really dont belong there IMHO.

Bollox .
Although the just requital of an injustice is an equivalent retribution those that pardon shall be rewarded by God ....
thats forgiveness isn't it , pardoning an injustice :yep:
Patience and forgiveness reflect a true strength of character...
Wow that forgiveness stuff must mean you are a real bad Muslim eh .

Jesus Haplo you just make this too easy:rotfl:
Its funny you make critcism of the koran and claim to have studied the bible extensively , yet give the distinct impression that you have read neither of them .

Wow bare legs thats bad, do you also have concerns with religions that have a thing about bare legs , arms or heads ?
I bet those Sikhs really get on your tits when it comes to helmets:rotfl:

On this note I gotta make a little interjection Cap, because it is according to the teachings of Mohammed compulsory to offer your home, your best food, and clothing to a traveller who comes to your door looking for shelter.

Now I'm not saying that its a very commonplace event nowadays, but its a misconception about Islam that it is all based on hate. Just as the misconception stands with Christianity being all based on forgiveness - Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah's flood...

At the end of the day, if there hypothetically was a god, I've got no doubt he'd be cringing daily from our actions in 'his/hers/its' name.

The crazy thing about the 3 main religions is this - they all worship the same bloke! all 3 share common traits, all 3 share common prophets - the differences are, theologically, quite small. The big differences arise from a few power-hungry individuals who decided to take these ideas and turn them into something for their own purpose. As is the case with anything new, if it is enforced for long enough it becomes the standard accepted practise.

its a real shame if you ask me, that these religions were hijacked, because if people opened their eyes, they'd realise that despite seperate methods of worship, they're all believing in the one bloke - about half the world's population...

Ok first off - If your going to quote something - quote it correctly.

"Although the just requital for an injustice is an equivalent retribution, those who pardon and maintain righteousness are rewarded by GOD"

The key words you left out being "and maintain righteousness" - which given their place is a directive to forgive a wrongdoing whenever doing so does not decrease your own righteous standing before your god. Thats not moderate considering your neighbor can cast of the tyrannical yoke of Islam and its your DUTY to go kill him according to the Quran. If Islam didn't try and define everything outside of its own determined path as a theological sin, then that would be one thing. Unfortunately - its beholdeness to violence when its theology is questioned, demonstrates my point. The fact that it has no ability to respect any other view than its own is why it cannot be considered moderate in any way.

Next time - try to argue without telling half-truths - you might get a bit farther. After all - a half truth - is a whole lie.

Baggy - I am not saying that Islam has no redeeming parts - but please note that what your referring to also is only to occur if the traveller or whatnot is also MUSLIM. Any person of another religion is persecuted - not respected. That is one major difference between Islam and the other major world religions in their forms today.

Look pussy, i dont think military is the place for things that separate, the idea is to bond together. That goes even for shorts and especially helmets that are part of personal protective equipment. It just isnt your choice to make, be it a religious or some weird fashion satement, it could danger other people also. I dont think anyone cares what people believe in their own time. But when the prayers or turbans start to affect the service it becomes a problem and i think such religions are simply stupid.

Still waiting.