Oh for Crimmanies sake!!
Lighten up!!
Does anyone have everything perfected?
Umm...
NOPE!!
I don't see this jump and kill method used anywhere but here.
:nope:
And you proclaim to be open minded?
:rotfl:

I though you would have been able to figure it out by yourself

Yep, but I don't proclaim to be a doormat;)

Interesting though, his responses have entailed switching viewpoints in response to my posts. Since he was responding to me with contradictory replies, why is it close minded to point this out?

Excuse me if asking someone to let you know where they really stand is being close minded. Where I come from, you can't even discuss a point reasonably without a clear understanding of another persons position.

And since both sidea are jumping, why are you only being snide to someone w/o a GWX sig?

You're demonstrating with your posts that indeed you have a problem with the GW dev team, since the thread started you keeped trolling for a harsh answer from one of us, let me tell you that you're not going to succeed, if you don't like a post and consider it provocative or ofensive in any way please file a report with the moderators, otherwhise please stop baiting.

Ref

Well, I didn't holler.
And you just happened to be the post reply I clicked on.
But if the shoe fits.

Now, just to be CLEAR!
This is aimed at all!

The GW Team is doing what they do.
Modding. (That is a period)

We are trying to make a peaceful transition.
We are trying to start a new period in our History.
As much as some may not like this,
it is going to happen.

Nothing short of tracking down all of us and killing us is going to stop this!
Whine and cry all you want?
It's a done deal.

We put our hands out.
Are you slapping them away?

That only makes us stronger,
more dedicated to the task at hand.

You all have some major talent and insight stepping up to bat.
Are you refusing that talent because of personal conflicts?

:roll:

Frack, there is a lot of this stuff lately, I don't care what side you are coming from lads it's gotta stop. There has been great, great work done with SH4 thus far, a tremendous amount with the PTO side, with the add on now here, that side of the game is starting to take off, especially with OM and what is planned with it.

Then you have the AOTD folks who have been working on the ATO side of things for awhile, throw in the GWX crew and what they have planned, and the future looks bright for the game. At the end of the day folks may not like one another, nobody is saying this is a requirement here, but at least have respect each other and move on from what has been going on in this thread, it is going nowhere.

We are moving towards an experience where soon the entire ocean will be opened up, hell these really are exciting times to be into this stuff :yep: Onward and upward if you ask me.


RDP

best... news... EVAR!

RDP

I think you said it all right there.
All I want is an end to this type carp fishing.

If We stay silent, We BAD.
If We talk, We BAD.

This has to end somewhere, sometime.
:roll:

It's fun for nobody in this mire. This place, SUBSIM, deserves better.


RDP

:up:

Would you please learn to read a thread

Ummmm does that not say that one area is not compatable with the other if the joint files are altered
Yes they interact but by modding the files I\We intend to the PTO wont work properly
Ergo no point in co operating with SH4 PTO modders

And by
I meant the PTO
Not the files

Clear enough for you ?

People not see this :roll:
Move on folks, nothing is being accomplished here, not tonight anyway, hopefully in the future that will change.

Step back and chill for awhile.


RDP

No I couldnt
Wasnt seeing the wood for the trees
Sometimes happens

Got there in the end though

Maybe something for the eventual SH4 Commander/Skipper/whatever to handle. :hmm:

Before the moderatorship prematurely slams a big lock on this thread... (and I am not being malicious with anything I write here)

I disagree that nothing is being accomplished here.

Is it unpleasant for some? Certainly. We walked into the SH4 saloon and ordered a whiskey.

We (GWX mod teamers and U-boat modders in general) have become part of the SH4 modding community.

Some feel that the entire SH4 game platform is their "turf." As difficult as it is for some to believe, there has been very loud resistance from a few, focused at those who would like to place anything U-boat on the SH4 game platform.

Some may feel that we want to hoover up all the toys and keep them to ourselves... That's hogwash! We give away virtually everything we create every time we execute a release.

Any analogy to being some sort of communist entity run by a dictator is also hogwash. Without leadership, a project is doomed from the outset to failure... due to its inability to advance... and to simply execute a decision. If every pixel must be voted on by the team... that team will become paralysed and will die of old age before building anything with a focus. This is true of both business and military organizations.

Everything Privateer has said (and Ref and BBW before him) is really absolute truth. Though I have no doubt some will refuse to believe it. After all, we can write any old thing here and simply be chameleons right?

Regarding cooperation/"coopetition." I don't understand why anyone thinks that the GWX mod team is somehow uncooperative. If people here had more time to read various readmes... you'd see how very opposite the situation is.

No one should be shocked regarding cooperation with the AOTD mod team. The teams are not 'merging' and limited cooperation will be mutually beneficial... all the while maintaining team independance that allows for freedom of movement aside from any special agreements that are reached between our teams.

Why work in secret? It is really quite simple. It leaves us free to explore, make mistakes, and include or cancel ideas without being confronted by scores of distractions and frequent snide comments born of 'vendetta.'

It also allows us to vent our frustrations without bringing them here... more often than you realize.

How is it that a team like GWX can stay together without getting paid? Also simple. Friendship is better than any amount of money one could offer. In the end we share a vision of what 'might be' if we work hard enough. We all work towards that goal as a team... as a crew to see it through.

Diversity is a strength and at time it is a weakness...

Speaking regarding the GWX mod team, we've had American, German, British, Argentinian, French, Serbian, Australian, Greek, Brazilian, Finnish, Dutch, Swedish, Canadian, and Spanish members.

In theory... you might think that such a team couldn't exist, coexist... much less cooperate!

It is a bit of a miracle if you ask me.

We've had a handful of internal knock-down-drag-out arguments, occasionally resulting in a team member leaving the project and crew on bad terms to put it gently. Although, some of these individuals may have no respect for individuals on the team... and vice-versa... Ultimately, I think it was because those individuals were probably more suited to run their own project. Nothing wrong with that in concept. The only thing we (naturally) object to overt attempts to damage the team or project by the individual leaving it behind.

Such events are to be expected if you really sit down and think about it.

Some left the team after giving so much that they had nothing left to give.

Regarding motivations. Can ANYONE here really explain HOW you came to be interested in submarines? People simply like what they like and enjoy what they enjoy. It really is inexplicable.

Why don't you prefer tanks, or flight sims. Why don't you prefer addiction to your cell phone... or squeezing another horse out of your car?

Why do you hate asparagus? *coff*

You simply like what you like and all sorts of emotive elements get tacked on as you go on in life.

How can anyone blame a red-blooded American for feeling a bit patriotic for sailing out of Pearl Harbor in 1942?

How can anyone blame a German in the same light. Are they not allowed to love their country? (I am not talking of Nazi politics... but the country and its people. Please don't go down Nazi-road.)

Those are 'emotive' reinforcements to things you may enjoy.

Speaking for myself... I feel that I am trying to understand a former enemy.

We are all playing "war" here... and the war we reinact is over. It has been decided, and history cannot be changed.

Everyone here bleeds when they are cut. We are all the same in that respect.

Difference in culture is just fine. We see and do things differently... and as long as we "play war" no lives are lost... everyone goes home for dinner... and we got to meet some people we liked and some that we didn't.

We naturally gravitate to others who are like-minded

Trading a few insults is quite different than shooting someone in the head and ending their life.

As U-boat modders begin to produce serious works for the SH4 platform... it naturally ceases to be entirely about one theater.

It is the platform that we need to progress... not individual preferences.

Regarding GWX mod team intentions... you'll never find us building a U-boat bunker in Dutch harbor. It never happened in real life.

Heck, don't shoot at us and we won't shoot at you.

Wouldn't we rather trade beer (or coffee) anyway?

(Okay... I'm done for now. Try to be cool folks.)

interesting... hehe

glad to see all the guys from sh3 over here, i can't wait!

Woh, let's nip this one in the bud quickly, LOL! I am merely a spectator over here...a player only.

Although of course I will continue development of JSGME, just as soon as I tie off some remaining SH3 commitments.

Doh had my hopes up there for a SH4Commander Jaesen
Tease

I second that .

KL(mostly for KL) and all,

What is written here my offend and you might look on aghast but here it is....



There is only one thing I do prematurely and it does not include locking threads. Thanks for the help.

You are correct.

This was expected. The add-on kind of took everyone in that general direction. Thanks for pointing that out. A large U-boat on the load screen for the add on was indicative of this.


Same feeling others get with GWX and SH3. Anyone see NYGM lately? Remember the code. Looks innocent on the surface...but it is anything but. You understood my feelings on that over a year ago. Modders being summarily dismissed if not cooperating on the "turf"...ie, Racerboy(I still think there is a candle light vigil awaiting his return), OLC in a heated thead wanting to use a GWX file. If I remember correctly, he did not need it anyway. Markshot, looking to understand the files was summarily dismissed by the GWX crew. His sig now reads, "will not post because possible bullying/attack. Go look him up in the captains roster. I do not think he has posted in a month. Nice job.


Yes you do, there is no way around that. But, with that said I refer back to OLC and his desire to use a file. You dangled it in front of him like a carrot I think about 4 pages worth on that thread. Lucky for him and the rest of the members GUI was created. What a nice mod.


I have no issue with anyone. Both Privateer and Ref are standup guys(truely). However, I disagree with the hand being slapped back. I have witnessed much the same from GWX. Refer to the above.

The uncooperative aspect stems from the refered to Racerboy, OLC and Markshot. There are others. Again, all brought forthwith from the installation of the modders code. As far as readmes, virtually no one reads them and I think this is the grass roots to the often used 'RFM'.

No one is shocked. What is shocking is a thread a day or so ago a member from AOTD popped in and asked to share notes with you. You blew him off. I did not see any reply. He is a guy way ahead of the game and he receives no replay. Ref finally responded to the guy. I believe it was Hitman who found a thread in a forum a month ago thinking it was someone looking to steal mods and make a addon for profit. It was all misconstrued. It was AOTD. They opened the book and said they were modding SH4 for the Atlantic come on over and see what we got. Here is the link. Very interesting I would say. But I'm just a simpleton moderator at best.

Furthermore, RDP,Hitman and myself constantly post and ask that things stop and threads get back on track. We are summarily dismissed by the GWX team, the crew, Ducimus and anyone else who chime in. Our posts to cease and desist are jumped and the all continue on their merry way beating the keyboard to death. Here too, I see were you feel you must advise a lock is coming premeturely. We, as moderators, are very sorry to be nothing but idiots who need not be paid any attention.

The basic premise here is other modders who have been working on SH4 since day one with all it's bugs(kindly worked out for you) feel that being put on the back burner as GWX has moved in is wrong. I can see where they feel this way. Alas, we must remember that this will(mark my words) will be two pronged no matter how you cut it. Uboats will go one way and Fleets the other way. It is inevitable. Other members are walking through the forums with blinders on and see only GWX. This is the issue. I think a few of the crew have said "atta boy" to a few of the modders in SH4. For that I thank them. All they ask is some acknowlegment and do not wish to have a mod war. You will find that no one in the SH4 mod forum has been beaten to death, denied or otherwise made to look stupid if they asked to use a mod. In fact, I have never seen such cooperation. These modder are asking the cooperation goes forward as it has been for over a year. Yes, SH4 has been out over a year. Just as you busted you tail over 2 years, these fellas have been at it also. So, is it wrong for them to be a bit defensive? GWX crew is very defensive and I see it everytime someone says something against their liking. The crew circles and destroys. This is what I read day after day.


Please feel free to rip into anything I have stated. No changing colors like a lizard. Have at it. Much to my chagrine, I'm really at my wits end with it all. Particularly when a member post a moderator might close a thread prematurely but I'm going to get my licks in before that happens. None of the moderators are your tools to use as you wish.

Enjoy your day.