And my Favorite of the Month: "SH3 was a buggy mess" :rotfl:

That guy must have never played Fast Attack, eh, John ;)

You have a point. But as John says, we can get heard and have improvements to the game without stooping to the level of ranting spewmonkies. :doh:

And it's either be 100% quiet or be downright rude? No in-between?

A lot of features that "everybody" want aren't really features that everybody want. You're sure the whole community wants a certain feature, and then somebody makes a poll and it's 40% for and 40% against, 20% undecided.

As for 3D compartments, while there was admittedly a majority for all of the sub's compartments being 3D models, the count was far from 90%.

Nothing wrong with wanting more. Nothing wrong with asking for it, either.

Where the problem arises is with the snse of entitlement that is already rearing it's head. Some people seem to think that because they may plunk down $30, $40 or $50 they have a right to talk to developers any way that they feel. They forget that these are real people they are talking to. One of the worst aspects of this is when people take a cheap shot at UbiSoft.... forgetting that it is not some faceless corporation that is producing these products, but real people.

It is the small percentage of enthusiasts that yell the loudest and make the demands that cause the problems. They make no allowance for the reality of software developement or, more importantly, the human factor.

I have seen too many really good sim developers pack it in and move on to other things because of this sense of entitlement that is too often displayed by the people who consider themselves the core of the hobby.

The real core of our hobby is the people who spend countless hours actually producing these simulations. I don't think it is too much to ask to treat them with respect. Words matter.

And Neal... I LOVED Fast Attack!

Bugs and all.

JCC

Fer shizzle ;). Great post John.

PD

I agree that the sense of entitlement is a little on the overboard side sometimes. People should feel some sort of entitlement though....you are paying for a Product right?? In this age of the Internet people can and should voice what they want in a sim....Short of demanding it that is.....the only real vote you get is buying or not buying the product. I think if it is done tactfully it can be an effective tool. I'm not saying the community should strive to be a watchdog to keep companies in check, but more of a tool for companies to improve their product. Unfortunately, frustration can get the best of us....and tact goes out the window....:damn:...as most all can be guilty of that. An sure its easy for anyone to spew anything on this forum without actualy knowing what you are talking about....which, if and when the developers read the site, makes it harder for them to get good info...I would think. I dont think this is about hurting real peoples feelings...its about business and making the best product possible.

I Love how People Hear the term "A.I. Subs" and immediately think Japanese Subs....ONLY! :roll:


The addition of A.I. Subs would mean that you wouldn't be the only U.S. Sub operating in the WHOLE PACIFIC DURING THE ENTIRE WAR.....!!!

I fail to see what's so unimportant about that!!!

If this new incarnation is supposed to have an active radio message log with interactice updates, while at sea, it would make sense to have occasional reports relayed from other FRIENDLY A.I. Subs operating in enemy waters, concerning enemy ship movements.

So lets not abstract this practice in a SHIV Campaign by having imaginary friendly A.I. subs making these contacts....for it would be nice to arrive at the location and assist these subs in attacking these ships. This would split up the DD escorts and allow for an easier get away.

What about having to rendevous with a friendly sub to transfer parts/ supplies/ fuel, while at sea, "never happened" I think not??? :hmm:

Rather than having the Dev Mentioned inserting of special forces onto a beachead missions I'd rather receive an occasional emergency message to search an area for a presumed lost U.S. Sub (as was done historically). Just think how ridiculious these missions would be if you knew the game had no U.S. A.I. subs whatsoever....why would you even waste your time:rotfl:

Bottom line is, even though you wouldn't have historically run into an enemy sub very often, seeing and sinking one during your career, would be the ultimate prize and made many a Captain famous. Also, having U.S. A.I. subs would add a lot to the campaign in many more ways than I've outlined, least of all adding to the immersiveness tremendiously. :up:

i'm just greatfull that they are making these Sims. For awhile, it looked like everthing was going to game stations. Based on the amount of time I spend with the game, it is some of the best money I've spent. Of course the mods get a lot of credit for that.

I don't rally care about walking around the boat all the much. Its a nice touch but I'm there for the hunt!.

Thank you UbiSoft and the Mod Community.:up:

Because the god lord knows I can't write code.

No, in this age of the internet there's a maltorrent of nitpicking and complaining, and I believe JCC is right. There is NO entitlement that warrants that kind of behaviour, if you actually want something to change. The developer is obliged to deliver a working product. Our entitlement lies in the fact that the product we purchase works as intended. We know that games have bugs, and developers have limits. If a game does not work as we EXPECTED, but none the less works, there is no entitlement of anything.

My favourite peeve with SH3 was the 8 km Vis range. I was really bummed about that. But even if I felt I was "let down", it was just not the case. I got a sub sim, it worked, I played it. That they chose to implement a 8000 range was a decision I didn't expect. Im glad someone modded it, but I should not have spent so much time bitching about it.

Remember the grand mother advice. Would your grand mother have done it? If not, its probably for a reason. Thanks JCC, for setting things straight ^^

Bottom line is, that you are way way out in the fringes of realistic expectations of the game. These are features, however nice they would be, are something that should be modded only. It would be super swell if the devs left some "hooks" to hang community developed ai subs on, but the primary aim and purpose of a submarine was to, in solitude, to hunt enemy ships and sink them. Id love to have ai subs, but that comes way after thermal layers, better damage model, a REALLY great manual plotting and solution making experience, better sound effects, more radio activity and scripted missions, more music for the grammophone, better AI for the enemy destroyers and airplanes etc.

Opinions, opinions, opinions....and we all have them. Look, all I'm saying that if done tactfully, we look at the things from SH3 that we thought were good or bad, and voice them out now, before the product hits the stores.....after the game comes out...it is too late (especially if the game is hard to mod).

"Your mission, should you chose to accept it..."
 

Maybe a team sould be assembled with the intent of approaching the developers with a list of demands, I mean 'to politely suggest a few ideas', as Neal has alluded to above? Obviously, I would love to be on the team but it should be the senior officers, Neal included, who make up this special Task Force.

Suggestion 1: For what it's worth, I'd like to see the water surface slightly opaque, like it is in BF2.

Feedback
 

The guys here at subsim and all of the people playing SHIII, is the best group to give feedback to SHIV dev. team. We have all played SHIII, and know what "makes us going". Ubi should let the excellent freeware modders help them...
Example: The GW mod beats the h*** out og Uboat: battle in the mediterranean stolen mod. collection. (No disrespect to the modders who "contributed" to those thieves..) :D

While this approach certainly has some merit I think it would be somewhat akin to re-inventing the wheel.

The developers are here, they always have been here. They do listen to what is being requested and, where possible, will act on it.

JCC

The problem comes when everyone puts out thier own personal wants and it clobbers the board. Which makes it hard, IMHO, for someone just reading to pick up what the most popular and reasonalbe ones are.

I think that a poll(or survey like SH3) system with a bunch of Ideas would be great. Then after the first vote, narrow the field and make another poll until we have a core feild of reasonalbe requests.

I think the first list could be put out there by Neal based on what has already been put out.....what do you think?

I think its better than just posting wants....it shows more effort and a willingness to work for a common goal.

Better and simpler to just have everyone write down their #1 wish, and their #1 wish only.