At VonHelsching

[quote=sergbuto]Readme

I succeeded to make a German sub which moves at the periscope depth and attacks Allied shipping with "virtual" torpedoes. The "virtual" torpedoes are invisible 14-inch guns. Unfortunately, I could not get rid of the flash/smoke/traces when guns are firing but it is not really noticable or understandable what is going on, especially when DDs/escorts are attacking submerged AI subs.Since it was not pissible to limit the ammo amount, the gun rotation/elevation is greatly limited and the sub can fire only directly ahead. [quote]

Not sure if Serg has changed anything since he has looked at them again but I believe its the same

It is the latter. If I reduce the speed to say 45 knots the AI subs stop attacking. However, since there is no accompanied flash or firing sound it is impossible identify the actual moment when torpedoes were fired.

I have linked the shell hit event to the effects used for torpedoes in the game.

It is very good idea. I did not think of that.

Actually, it is possible to use real torpedoes for AI subs by f.e. specifying in EQP something like this

[Equipment 5]
NodeName=A01
LinkName=SH_Torpedo_G7e_TII
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19401231

However, torpedoes get released immedieately after loading a mission. Also AI is not able to aim torpedoes.

Therefore, concerning your question, it is still the former.

It is still the same principle. But now there are no gun flash and firing sound, no shell trace or splash upon hitting the water surface. There are the same damaging properties and caliber as real torpedoes have and subs get realistic amount of torpedoes. It is impossible to identify the moment when torpedoes have been fired. Now in terms of look, feel and immersion, the only difference from the situation with real electric torpedoes is that you can't hear torpedoes with hydrophone. But when attacking a convoy it is anyhow difficult to identify torpedoes in the water because of quite a few ships around.

Cheers again Serg!!
i wonder if this is also affected by the 3D loading range....and there fore might be usable under certain cirumstances by virtue of the fact that the torps would only be launched once the player is withint range of the Ai subs?....if the torps are launched straight ahead in front of the sub..then placing them at 90 degress to the shipping positioned as escorts might allow for instant torp launches with varying results BEFORE the escorts get chance to attack and force the subs to evade....adding an alternative method of acheiving the same results as the excellent method you have developed..this might prove use-full for some situations..especailly if the torps were modded to increase the range or even FATs were used...perhaps by enemy subs against the player...this would create some interesting moments perhaps for the player?

keep up the good stuff Serg':yep: :up:

Thanks. I guess now it even better than the first wolfpack mod version (and the PT boats too, if the same principle is applied). I mostly enjoyed the single mission of your PT boat mod.:D

Regarding CB..s idea about the rudder and the depth variability of the AI subs this can be relatively easy be checked if you know your way in the .sim files. Great idea. Having made several relevant tests for the Deck Gun Removal Mod, I can understand that, we might get some interesting behavior from the AI Sub (with the caveat that the same things that can be applied in a human controllable sub, can be ported to an AI sub).

I am sure we'll be having relevant developments. When I have time, I might take a look too.

Von

Yes, it could be so. Needs some testing.

I do not remember the results of my tests (were done quite a while ago) but I think that the direction of the torpedo launch is defined by the orientation of the corresponding node in the 3D model. In the above example it would be the orientation of the A01 node. Thereby, one can have a number of nodes oriented differently to have launches in the desired direction with respect to the sub position.

Unfortunately, AI subs do not evade. The only thing which makes them change a direction from that defined by waypoints is the collision avoidance routine.

sounds intrigueing Serg'

on the evade thing...they do start to zig zag when they have detected an enemy..which is close enough for jazz as they say..i dunno if you have found this at all?
if not extend your AI modifications for the subs by editing the sim files to read at the start listing the AI instructions/

to list in order

CMDR_AISHIP
CMDR_AIFIGHT
CMDR_AIFIGHT
CMDR_AIUNIT

then the subs start zigg zagging in the same way as the escorts do when an enemy is detected.

appolgies if you have this sussed allready..
it's not exactly full evasion but it's at least effective against torp attacks and involves the use of the rudder (hence allowing for the rudder drag idea to work and rapid variation in course and speed):up:

Excellent work Sergbuto. I am hopeful now that I am going to see real convoy battles some day.

I am holding off from using it now, in fact I am not playing at all. But as soon as there is a final version I will get it.

I also plan to make steps to incorporate this into Sh3Gen, I hope to be able to give the player information about wolfpack activity and other boats trailing convoys, as well as Allied and Italian submarines when there are any.

Yes, CB. I know about zig-zagging but that is done by surfaced AI subs. I meant submerged subs which I primerily created for Wolfpack operations. They do not seem to do zig-zagging, at least in my test mission. Maybe it is a matter of having enough speed or visual detecting the enemy? Maybe I need to check the location of corresponding nodes and give sonar to the subs? But I will be glad to hear if you have seen the submerged subs zig-zagging.

i had no success with adding sensors to the AI subs i must admit....
interestingly tho you can remove ALL the sensors from the subs and it still gives them a default visual detection capability..perhaps the trick might be to find the default sensor and edit it so it has some sort of limited underwater range...as the game seems to only use this sensor when all others are removed (?? one hopes!!!) this underwater "vision" wouldn't be used by the other vessels..either that or creating a new unique visual sensor (i hear this is possible?) specifically for the AI subs that can see underwater would allow them to detect and react to enemy vessels including the player im assuming..dunno...you could even perhaps try altering the surface depth to say 50 metres..dunno if the game will take any notice of this...how did you get the gun node to fire whilst the subs were submerged? they must be able to detect the enemy in order to fire or is it automatic in the same way as the torp fireing is? etc

i can't remember if the test sub i used for the AI_CMDR edit evaded when set at scope depth..but that at least should be possible...a custom visual sensor might be the answer i don't know why they didn't seem to use hydrophones or sonar sensors at all...if the escorts can use them then it's a bit of mystery that one...something to do with the class of ship must be the root of that limitation...change the class of vessel the sub is listed as and perhaps it will be able to use the full range of sensors used by other AI vessels..??? tho that might have other drawbacks if possible....

one thing tho is that if they can be persuaded to submerge by using the evasion rudder drag trick, to slow them down below their ability to maintain depth - then the evasion should continue for a short period - untill it runs thru it's evasion routine and then it will surface again then dive again if there's still enemy around - which would be entertaining..but i remeber that the hummingbird efefct doesn't cover fully surfaced ships. as they have a different set of rules..it may be some sort of bodge might be possible if all the bits and bobs needed can be knitted together..can the model file be moved so it appears on the surface even tho it is at scope depth...can a sensor be rigged up that works at scope depth....does the humming bird efefct work on AI subs etc etc...

I am trying to improve the performance of PT boats against the player sub so it really looks and feels like they are attacking with torpedoes. In connection with this, I have made two version of Vosper but extensive testing is required to determine which one is better in this respect. Such testing requires playing in a campaign mod to encounter these PT boats in various situations. Unfortunately, I do not have enough time to do that but wondering if someone else will be willing to help with such testing.

Count me in for testing Serg :up:

I´m interested. I will contact you as soon as I have free time from other modding activites. :up: