For the simple reason that back in the 1950s nobody used that kind of language in public. Just because women didn't talk about it then doesn't mean they were happier.

A nice cozy little fantasy that never existed. Women were trapped in a second-class existence, not allowed to be more than a secretary in an office or a salesgirl in a store. Not allowed to progress in business unless they inherited a lot of money and could afford to buy their way in. As late as the 1980s women still had a very hard time getting promoted, more often having to leave one company and move to another if they wanted to progress at all. No, they weren't happier then.

It's my belief that the predjudice toward saving women and keeping them out of combat is biological. A surviving male can impregate many women. I surviving female can only give birth roughly once per year. We therefore place a higher value on the preservation of females.

Males are in general bigger and stronger than females. We also tend to place a value on knowing that our children are indeed ours, which leads to a tendency to keep our women tied to a place where we can be reasonably sure that they aren't being approached by rival males. This leads to keeping women locked into a situation where their fates and fortunes are tied to the man's. The men are indeed happier with the system you claim to long for. That doesn't mean the women are also happier or better off. You're missing a past that never existed.

So the declining economy is all the fault of women wanting to work for themselves?

When was this magical time? I am a child of the '50s, and I don't recall having a male teacher until seventh grade. Laura Wilder was a school teacher in the 1880s. So were many women, as it was the only job they were allowed to hold.

That is one item I won't disagree on. It doesn't, however, stem from "allowing" women to hold real jobs.

[quote]Anyways, I'm here to educate folks on what's happening to our society and why it's failing. There's a lot of dynamics involved so it not any one particular thing that's totally responsible but feminism and political correctness has a lot to do with it.[quote]
It looks like you need a little education yourself. You seem to be in the habit of giving your isolated opinions as if they were established facts, when they are nothing of the kind.

I agree that there are problems that need to be addressed, but Sodom and Gomorrah and ancient Israel were PC? Socialist? You need to show at least a tiny shred of evidence to support a claim like that.

An interesting read is The Fifties by David Halberstam


There are a lot of misconceptions concerning how happy and satisfied people were in the 1950's. Life in the '50's was not like it was portrayed on TV shows.

For men who can't tolerate the fact that many if not most women they encounter are financially independent enough not to tolerate their crap in exchange for the promise of economic security they might provide, it's just another BS reason to argue that things were better when the wimminz knew their place and had little choice but to stay in it.

Very often the same men will then turn around and complain that women are nothing but golddiggers who only see them as a meal ticket. So... they want to keep women financially dependent on men, but don't want the size of their wallet to factor into their perceived suitability as mates. Sense: this makes none. :O:

But it's a common part of the usual Nice Guy Lament, which typically revolves around some self-proclaimed "nice guy" railing at some woman (or all women) for not giving him what he believes he's entitled to: love, sex, a girlfriend, a wife, etc. What the "nice guy" fails to realize is that he's not entitled to any of it and whether he truly is nice or a complete asshat is irrelevant to that fact.

Nice article but I'm a bit lost when you suggest, as the article does, that the good guy feels entitled to sex. She explains that not all women are the same yet it would seem the "nice guy" feels entitled. Are all men then the same in her eyes? It would seem so. :hmmm:

June Cleaver did not greet Mr. Cleaver at the door every evening with pipe, slippers and paper dressed in her Sunday's best? All these years...hoodwinked. :shifty:

Most women in the US are not financially independent. They swapped men for government because government and feminism forced women into the workforce which in turned allowed companies to lower the wages for men and women because more applicants means companies can select the most qualified person for the least amount of money. Now, neither men or women make enough to support a family all on their lone income except the very few. Women still have children though (single moms) and they take a handout from the man they had a child with and another handout from Uncle Sam. That's not independence at all. It's just a society that's willing to allow single motherhood to exist even though it's draining the nation financially. It's just made more economical sense to have women in the home raising their own children and men off working to provide for their families. There is equality in that because both functions are equally important for raising healthy, happy, children.

Your argument looks like you do feel entitled to men's money. There seems to be some resentment in your words towards men who aren't paying women and/or for challenging the status quo.

I don't think men have a problem with women having her own money. Hell, I think it's every man's fantasy to have a rich woman with a knock out body that provides him sex and financial support. I've noticed a lot of women these days making claims that "men can't handle strong, independent women, who have more money than themselves" but I don't think that's nearly as true as women not being able to handle men who make less than themselves. Women hate feeling like "the man" in the relationship. Women want to marry up - not down.

Men have shown throughout history they are willing to marry down. Women on the other hand rarely seem willing to marry down. They usually try to marry up. It's my personal experience that women hate paying for dates as well - especially the first date. And it's funny that now that some women have been ordered to pay alimony or child support to their ex-husband they complain more than men do about it. There's like an entire female crusade in the US to end alimony laws or make them so that only men have to pay it but never women.

I do feel that men are entitled to love, sex, etc. with women. I believe women are entitled to the same from men. It's a human right and there's equality in that. But it seems like you feel a man should have to pay a woman even more when she's getting his love, sex, etc. just the same. This would suggest you don't see men's love, sex, etc. as being equal to women's and requires extra compensation aka money for men to have exactly what men are giving to women for free.

You have to distinguish between the genuinely nice guy and the Nice Guy as it exists in the context she's discussing, which is a whole other thing, and usually involves someone bewailing the fact that he can't get what he thinks he's entitled to even though he's so "nice" and then labeling the woman or women he's not getting it from in some derogatory fashion as a result.

The point being that NO ONE is entitled to sex, love, or a relationship with another human being, ever. Those are things you get only with the consent of the other person(s) involved, which is theirs to give or withhold at their own discretion, the end. Behaving as though he is owed those things because of how "nice" he is and then calling women sluts or whores or golddiggers or spoiled brats or sick in the head because they choose not to comply with his wishes makes him the kind of Nice Guy she's talking about, i.e., not a real nice guy at all.

Imagine if you had a close male friend who was gay, and he just assumed that his being such a good friend to you meant you should be willing to hop in the sack with him and/or be his boyfriend. And you said, um... "sorry, dude, but I'm just not interested in you that way" and then he went on some rant about what an a-hole you were for not wanting him and loving him as though that was something you owed him in return for his "friendship." That's what the Nice Guy (as opposed to a genuinely nice guy) does to women.

Neither are most men. Generally, men and women in today's society go from living with mommy and daddy to living with their bf/gf and creating a 2 income "family".

True.

Now hold on - that is a mass generalization that doesn't always hold true. As a "single" parent myself, I am going to point out that a good portion of single mothers don't play that game.
I have yet to meet a woman like that. I have known a fair number that make more money than I did at the time, but not once did that create a problem. I worked, they worked. If a woman is basing her view of you on how big your paycheck is compared to her, her priorities are already screwed up and I don't have time for her. She is too shallow for me to start with if that occurs.

Child support? Don't get me started! LOL.


I know what you meant by this - but it reads like your saying sex is a human right that a guy is entitled to because he thinks some chick is hot. Not so....

Its not that a man's love is different - women and men see and portray love and the relationship differently. It is that fact that leads to there being a perceived inequality to many relationships. Sadly, it is the reality that men and women in relationships do not communicate about the different perspectives, leaving each feeling as if they are somehow "giving more" to their partner, often creating a sense of frustration that ultimately harms the relationship.

This feminism crap is doing nothing but driving men and women away from each other and resulting in tons of divorce and it's affecting the kids negatively. It's just leading to never ending arguments in which both sides are right and wrong but women are expecting men to submit these days with some sort of woman knows best attitude. But do women really know what's best? Seems like they can't make up their minds. One minute they expect men to open doors for them and then the next they don't. Which is it? I don't think women even understand themselves. I think men are more logical in their thinking while women are just emotionally mentally retarded and like to drive men insane with frustration.

Seriously, thank you for the clarification. I was not certain if the "nice guy" and "good guy"(genuine) was the angle she was working was in fact two different things. It was not immediately apparent to me. And I agree, no one is entitle to much of anything let alone sex or otherwise.

Simply don't get married. :up:

Garren - the problem your describing is like a pendulum. It swings back and forth - and often when people try to force a solution, which feminism is exactly that - a faced solution, it makes the pendulum swing farther than it should.

With that said, you have to remember that every person is different. Every woman is different. You said in another post that you are in multiple relationships. That isn't easy - and you know how important it is that you balance each woman's needs. Every one of those women is different and its on you to keep things on an even keel. Well, not all women want the same thing from their guy - so work with the ones that want what you offer, and let the ones that want to run the show find some sissified boi to boss around.

But that's exactly proving my argument correct. Men and women are not getting married and are going their own way all because of this social engineering scheme called feminism. Well, that's doing a whole lot of good. Women were happier in the 1950s even though Steve doesn't think they were. There's been studies at various Universities and in various westernized countries that show that women were happier in the 1950s. Life was much simpler back then for everyone. But just like people tend to do - they always think the grass is greener on the other side. Women back in the 1950s and 60s thought the grass would be greener for women if they pushed a 2nd wave of feminism onto society. But all that resulted from it is unhappy relationships between men and women. The gays on the other hand are making out like bandits. Been no better time in history for the gay crowd. Funny that many of the more outspoken feminists are lesbians. And straight women follow these women and their ideas of what equality is between men and women? These women hate men.

Correct for...wait for it....you! Let's not try to be a history revisionist. Enjoy the day. :yeah:

I'm just dating multiple women right now but I'm not committed to any of them. They all know I'm a player and not interested in commitments even though they all want me to commit to them because they want to be that special one that I chose over the rest. Men look for sex to brag to their friends about and women look for commitments to brag to their friends about.

And I actually find just dating multiple women the way I am as being much easier than committing to just one woman. With commitments comes expectations and I'm tired of being expected to do things for women. The whole marital system is a farce. Just a socialist redistribution of wealth from man to woman with the government holding a gun to the man's head and telling him to pay her like one giant pimp.