In the 1950's Unions were never more powerful

also, in the 1950's our economy was booming

sure, we were in position to do so...but if unions were so bad it would have negated that advantage

this is why i firmly beleive that the current war on unions by the GOP is nothing more than an attempt to do away with them...at bequest of the super rich. It's not about our economy but about lining the pockets of the few who already have so much

Its kind of jaw dropping how teachers want more benefits than they already have. You get MONTHS of paid vacation, total job security, health benefits, some get retirement and plenty of other benefits that the private sector would kill for. You dont see anyone else asking for "more more more, even though we have less less less". Teachers on average get more pay than people think, a pretty good wages far as im concerned. Their job security is ridiculous too, cant fire teachers for being bad teachers, unlike the rest of the job market.

This is not for the children. Them striking isnt going to help anything, the budget isnt going to spontaneously get better because they decided to strike, taking money away from that school that it gets through attendance, suspending kids education, and all "for the children". And i bet theyre getting paid for this too.

Hey Gimpy,
So we've had this convertation before:D, so I'll just point a few things out.

You need to seperate the blue collar unions (working, the trades unions) which I can sympathize with btw vs the white collar (government/ teacher's [NOT including the po-lice/fireman]) unions.

This fight is with the whitecollar unions,imo. That's all I'm saying. We're not going to agree on anything, so there's no point in spinning each other's wheels.:D

Moving on,
A serious question for you, so how's school going for you? Jar my memory, what you are majoring in again?

If I recall, the strike is not over money, but teacher's evaluation standards.
On a pay note, that really varies state by state. Some states pay really well (not including Alaska in this discussion) and others pay chump change.

Pay will differ from district to district. The average of those salaries will be different state to state, but the state does not manage contracts or salaries. That is left to the individual school district.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/chica...ry?id=17202417

Example:

Chicago SD Teachers average: $71,236
Average for state of Illinois: $64,978

The teachers do, however, make slighly less than those doing comparable averaging 91 cents to the dollar.

I see unions brought up.

Typically by people not in one, or who do not know how they work, or believe what is force fed to them by corporate shilling conservatives.

I will not speak on taxpayer paid unions like teachers and police, they are out of control, the only ones getting raises these days.

My private union, has given back, due to this economy. We forgone raises for 2 years. Lost a week vacation, and had our sick days and personals halved. But we voted on that. We saw the need to work with our employers, and to compromise.

But when the money is drawn from the taxpayer teat it is endless to these people. They feel as government paid employees, they are a notch above us Proletariat scum.

I understand the rhetoric, but I ask you not to lump private unions into this. I lost 10k in wages/benefits a year due to what we gave back.

Unions is why you have your nice houses...

We would be like Bangladesh or China if it wasn't for unions.

Too bad most of them are as corrupt as our politicians, and in bed with those who want to kill an honest wage.

Critisize private unions, the builders of this country. I bet you drove along our smooth road we paved, or one of the bridges we built. Or charged your cell phone with the electric lines we put up and maintain.

We do it with pride!

But unions catch more ire than banks, or the Federal reserve here in the goooooood ol US of A, then the same folks decline they are engaging in class warfare.

Ok, I am a current student, so I am biased.

I do volunteer teaching at the computer science club at school. And truthfully, I genuinely think I am better than a few of my teachers at this:shifty:

There is no quality control in the education system. Especially in courses like computers or cooking and things like that.

I got 96 in a course where I learned nothing, and I didn't even think I did anything. I mean, I'm not complaining, but the school is not getting any sympathies from me.


Also, from a different angle, school was supposed to reduce juvenile delinquency, through getting us off the streets, and through keeping us occupied. However, discipline at school is getting horribly out of control.

Last year, a kid got stabbed at my school. This other guy pulled a toy gun on a freshman, and almost scared him to death. People smoke under the no smoking sign, and the dress code might as well not exist (guys, I don't want to see your pink underwear). If the cops come to out school and do a drug bust, they might end up arresting a quarter of all the students.

So yeah, the education system is not getting any sympathies from me:hmph:

well, it's a bummer these union workers are getting raises, but have the super rich stopped getting them? I doubt it. If they can live high on the hog, and then complain about taxes and get lobbies to help eliminate them...then why can't union employees get the raises maybe everyone should be getting rather than voting for less and less in a form of solidarity; when I have a sneaking suspicion CEO's aren't doing nearly the same

*sigh*:roll: I'll take the time:

The logical flaw in your argument is that you take anecdotal evidence from your micro view to make a statement from the macro view

Though you must be in the most horrible school in your state, where:
- teachers need no certification, as no standards whatsoever exist
- students with preknowledge write good tests
- a school is not supposed a learning facility but some sort of labor camp, keeping people away from society and occupied

Hearing that a "guy pulled a toy gun" is the most horrendous, shocking school story I have ever heard. :o This really sounds like 1980s Beirut.

Back on topic:

When you regard salary as a motivational factor, a good wage indirectly increases the work standard. We all know how horrible demotivated teachers are. Though the formula more money = better education is wrong.

People complain about high wages for teachers in public school, but have no problem to send their kids to a private school, where the teacher's wages are even higher, not even talking about the costs of higher education in the US.

Divide and conquer works: People are jealous of the teacher' s benefits. Instead of demanding those benefits for their own jobs, they want the ones other person receives cut. Often the same folks who say that the Occupy movement promotes jealousy.

Still the main questions continue: How to effectively raise the education level? How can we measure "success" in education, how can we evaluate the work quality of teachers?

http://i.imgur.com/9g3pT.jpg

I thought I'd just leave this here :D

Welcome to the world of socialism :)


Dredging up the last "school/teaching" topic I can find. I have been teaching for 2 months now, and it has been a real interesting experience. Some observations:

I've heard for years how the solution to the education problem in America is the quality of teachers. At this juncture, I have to point out that you get what you pay for, and most of the teachers I have met and worked with are smart, motivated, patient, and by all means, capable. For $45,000 a year (yes, with 2 months off in the summer, that's the only reason anyone would do this job :haha:), it's not bad pay, but it's still pretty limited.

The real issue is the quality of students--you cannot teach very much if the kids will not stop talking and sit in their seats. It's a constant battle to keep them on task, hit the sweet spot of holding their severely limited attention span and interest, and get them to do their work. Yes, I know kids have always resisted school and education, long since before I was a kid, and that it's our job to drag them into the light. But in the past -- correct me if I am wrong -- the parents actually did their job and raised a kid who would respect their elders enough to shut up and sit down...and allow some teaching to take place.

And the school system is at fault, probably because society/voters/legislators are outlining what they must/can and cannot do with regards to classroom management, by enabling kids to get away with bad behavior, and by forcing teachers to deal with disruptive kids mixed in with kids who will actually do their part and receive instruction. Honestly, I feel horrible for the 40% of the class who are quiet and trying, while I spend most of my time trying to keep the other 60% in line. And the teacher has few real options to make a disruptive kid feel real consequences.

I think private schools do work, like you said, for several reasons--higher teacher pay, definitely attracts better teachers, but also the people who value education and send their kids to private schools probably have their stuff together more and their kids are less disruptive. And, if Johnny is in trouble for his behavior, mom and dad will address that with real concern because they are paying directly for his education. Sort of like college.

My respect for teachers, which was considerable before this (based on the quality, caring work they did with my children), has increased.

So how do you like it?
Have you done parent-teacher conferences yet?

:up:

Jar my memory, what grade are you doing again?

So how do you handle these kids?

Well, yes and no. Having worked in both private and public schools, I can certainly attest to the fact that the students were better behaved in the private school. This was not simply due to the fact that parents were more involved, as parents were still problematic (they just don't seem to be any different, regardless of environment), but largely because the school had the option of dismissal. The administration could expel the student from the school. Public schools largely do not have that option. While it is true that most districts include at least one alternative school to be used for disruptive students, they are not used as frequently due to the limited resources and staffing available.

In terms of pay, my experience is that there was no comparison. I came out of grad school to my first teaching job in a private school. I was making $25k per year and the benefits were terrible. That was masters scale too. And that was the tradeoff for the better teaching environment. The teachers were not union, and the board paid them whatever they wanted. There was a lot of teacher turnover due to the fact that you just can't raise a family on that salary.

I am teaching 5-8, different subjects. How do I handle these kids? Constant warnings, assign them paragraphs to write out, additional homework (with doesn't get done), make them stand in the hall, send them to the office (when they really go off the deep end). I try to explain why they need to stay on task, it goes right over their heads. It's such a hassle, when all I want to do is teach, help them learn, and help them grow. Each student is important to me, even the difficult ones, but the system really handicaps the teacher by mixing them all in one class.

Ok, thanks, I really was off the mark on that. I did not know the pay/benefits gap was that great between private and public schools. Yeah, $25K is not a livable wage, I guess they mostly employ new teachers and spousal incomes.