Just let it go. People like that are sold on their ideas and there's no changing them.

Look if you do not like or except what I say that's fine but you name call
personal attacks are out of line.
I am fully aware how terrifying it can be (to some) to side or even give a hint of agreement
with someone with a minority view, but to over react with a personal attack in order to show
no one thinks you agree with me is to be expected when you dare to stand up for your beliefs

I can agree with that.

Why? Why does god require a sacrifice? He created the rules, he's all powerful. Why does he require a man's horrific torture and death instead of just forgiving people? If he truly is all powerful, why?

Why is there some sort of "debt" to be paid in the first place?

Again, why was this necessary?

So god set up an evil world, drops us into it, and threatens to torture us forever if we don't believe in him... but lovingly sent a man to a bloody death to save us?

That's not true I changed my view. As a matter of fact men change their
views all the time concerning things that don't affect their income. And on
the other hand if changing their view meant earning more money and a
show of success many have no problem changing their views. Isn't that
the modern tactic today for those who have no true core beliefs. Do what
ever it takes, say and think what ever takes.
Take a view at those who represent us in Government. Wouldn't it be a
horrible thought to think they actually do represent us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeWolf http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif
However this morality issue has noting to do with your position in the eyes
of God.

I can agree with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeWolf http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif
All mans sins require blood atonement. In other words to be forgiven
requires a sin offering of blood sacrifice.

Why? Why does god require a sacrifice? He created the rules, he's all powerful.
Why does he require a man's horrific torture and death instead of just forgiving people? If he truly is all powerful, why?

Well if I was God that is what I would do. But a time will come when you will
appreciate a God that man can not fully know or comprehend. Could you imagine for example in stead of sixty six books
of the bible there where sixty six trillion books. God has hidden so much from us but enough for guys like me to
comprehend his plan of salvation and that in it self speaks volumes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeWolf http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif
Now, to escape the demand God has on all mankind to pay
a sin debt that no man can pay

Why is there some sort of "debt" to be paid in the first place?
Adam in the garden of Eden sinned. And therefore was proof to mankind
man could not be obedient to even a single command no matter the environment. God knew this from the
beginning but God was after the heart of man. Creating Adam with a free will meant God wanted man to worship
him from the core of his heart. And as you read the account you see that that was not going to be easy.
Adam turned on God and Eve in a drop of
hat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeWolf http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif
God sacrificed his only begotten son...
Christs full payment...

Again, why was this necessary?

It was the greatest expression of love God could do to show man. And
man could never save himself or appreciate the sacrifice until after the fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeWolf http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif
We are all born into a bad situation, no matter how you slice it or dice it
it a totally no win - apart from Christ.

So god set up an evil world, drops us into it, and threatens to torture us forever if we don't believe in him... but lovingly sent a man to a bloody death to save us?

Hell was never intended for mankind. It was set up for Satan and his Angels
who broke in open rebellion in heaven. Angels where created to live forever
never to die. And God never offered them forgiveness.
To angels they where cast down forever to man he was cast out but with an a single option - Christ Jesus.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...ARfbpqjx6NCaCw


http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...iLOlMf_sFNzEvQ

This one! :DL

Uh huh.

What was the sin of Adam in the Garden? He ate from the tree that god told him not to eat from. This was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Before eating from this tree, Adam could not know good from evil, therefore he could not know that disobeying was wrong. Adam could not know he was sinning.

Also, why does Adam disobeying god have anything to do with me? If Adam sinned (which he could not have, because he could not knowingly choose between good and evil), Adam is responsible. If I rob a bank, my children will not go to jail. If my grandfather committed murder, I am not put on trial. Holding someone else responsible for the transgressions of another is immoral.

The greatest expression would have just been to forgive, instead of demanding a bloody death for someone. Substitutionary atonement is immoral, as well. The crucifixion was punishing one person for someone else's crime.

So now we finally get to why hell is needed. It's for the fallen angels. So why does god send people there?

Boy I really care - honest!

Could you tell me your bases for your morality?

You ought to. :yep:

My personal basis for morality, or the origins of human morality in general?

Personally, empathy for other beings, along with the teachings of my parents and other respected members of society.

In general, evolution and learned behavior from emerging society.

I'm not personally well versed on the subject, but it's on my list of things to look into.

Could you tell me your bases for your morality?

I did.