Clear...
 

futuristic or utopia!

I, for one, am tired of seeing Germany sit on the stool of eternal guilt for this whole "Nazi" thing. Seriously. Yes, the Nazis were evil and yes, what they did to the Jews was atrocious, but I didn't see an army of Jews descending upon Rwanda to stop the genocide there, so I guess they're not sore about it anymore. I know it's hard, being Germans and all, but you guys can relax now. Nobody in their right minds really believes all that BS propaganda the rest of the world had to manufacture to justify going to war with you to save the military dictatorship of Poland so we could hand it over to the Soviets later. God forbid that Germany annex a city of Germans who wanted to be reunified anyway:roll: Heck, I bet there are a number of Eastern European states who wish you had won the war. At the outset, a lot of other western nations were also hoping that Germany would win out against the Soviets.

In any case, nobody who matters has anything against you. It's nice that you're all anti-nazi, but let's not abridge free speech and natural human rights out of guilt. All those neo-nazis ever do is make fools out of themselves, anyway. The war is over, you're still a great country, let's all move on, shall we? The rest of us could use a little traditional Prussian military excellence in beating some sense into the jihadists.:rock:

While I know what you mean with Germany hiding over an excuse of being guilty, nevertheless confronting Nazism has nothing to do with guilt, but understanding what it is. I don'T agree often with August, but as I said: where he is right, he's right. I have absolutely no problem with freedom of speech - and nevertheless kicking the sh!t out of every Nazi or Islamist there is. Indeed, only a dead Nazi is a Nazi that can be tolerated. i say that loud and clear, and I do not care fpor people beign irritated and yelling out loud. Nazism should not be considered to be something that eventually, under some circumstances, you can get an arrangement with. Nazism is cultural hydrophobia. kill it wereever you find it, without remors, regret or hesitation - kill it. My tolerance for the existence of others ends where the others do not tolerate me. My willingness for free speech ends were the others use free speech to directly or indirectly demand or support the abandoning of free speech. Our constitution sees it the way I just put it in words. I want to remind you all that certain parts of the constitution of Germany were formed and formulated under massive influence and advise and demand by the allied victors, namely America and France.

Some of the absolutist claims made in this thread are hair-raisingly absurd, and hilarious, and insane. I am aware of politicians trying to gaggle media or to intimidate wistleblowers, that is not only A problem with the EU and the German govenrment only , but maybe an even greater problem with the American government. First the new legal rules by Bush to fight against wistleblowers and limit the press' access to insiders giving precious information, now Obama systematically deleting any non-systematical, well-organised statement or press conference, keeping the press away from anything worth to be reported as best as he can, passing rules to keep yournalists from any scnee of tjhe crime so that any falure or helpless ness by the adminstration cannot be oberseved and reported on. before the election, he did spontanous remarks and speeches without preparation. Now he does not even reply to a schoolkid without reading question and reply from the teleprompter. What a blender.

Some American voices in this thread may want to consider the poor state of their own house before continuing to bash Germany over rules we have considering "Volksverhetzung". We are anti-Nazi over here because by own experience we Germans know bettet than anyone else what Nazism means, with the expection of Jews.

Fair enough, but we are trying to put our house in order, so to speak. We just all have different ideas about what order that should be. I know you're not a fan of my lassiez-faire outlook on economics and my insistence upon seriously limited government, but there are a number of Americans who share those views and we are trying to get our noses out of your business. If nothing else, please believe that a less state-heavy America would have neither the time nor the resources to interfere in the affairs of other sovereign nations.

In any case, what Germany does is it's own business, but I'd rather see a strong and free Germany than a leashed and censored one.

So would I, but being anti-Nazi, and the constitution's rules on when free speech finds necessary limits, and free speech, all are three very different things.

All we need is love!
 

True in fact, :yep:

I recently read at the
 

German man has been locked up for six months for having set a speech by Adolf Hitler as his mobile phone ringtone.

A sad state of affairs.

A sad state of affairs where propaganda by Hitler is being excused with "free speech".

Tell me one thing, Snestorm. When free speech is used to spread that kind of propaganda, and the propaganda is successful and a sufficient ammount of the population follows it again like it already once did, and thus the people revolt in a coup or by democratic elections overthrow the democratic order in a Germany that your grandfather's' generation have fought and maybe died for in order to establish it and to overthrow that Nazi regime back then, and germany again would become a Nazi tyranny today and demands Lebensraum and Arien superiority and we attack France and Poland again and have KZs, and in the following years again some dozen of million people find death because of us having had free speech and thus: nazi-tyranny and antisemtic progromes again while at the same time we have shut down free speech to protect our newly won Nazi tyranny from criticism and opposition - would that be okay for you? :stare: After all, these things would have become strong again - because you willed them the space and opportunity to grow strong again.

It's Extreme Left policies, that feed and nourish the Extreme Right.

Perhaps it's time to examine some more recent policies, like multiculturalism, mass immigration, and islamisationism, and see what went wrong.

That is no answer to my question.

Germany man...
 

has been locked up for six months for having set a speech by Adolf Hitler as his mobile According to The Daily Telegraph, the 54-year-old man had the Hitler speech as his ringtone, in which the Fuhrer pledged the 'destruction of world Jewry' if Germany was 'dragged' into cording to the paper, he was arrested at Harburg station on Tuesday, near the northern city of Hamburg, when his fellow passengers, shocked with the ringtone, swastika stickers, and a photo of Hitler on the telephone with the words 'The greatest commander of all time' alerted the police.

He was charged with violating the German constitution, which expressly forbids public displays of Nazis and all their works...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ring-tone.html

We'll take a peace of it, as it's very wide.

Should the government be replaced through democratic means, it means that the government failed the people.

The worse the government pushes people, the more drammatic the solution those people will accept. "It ain't good, but it's better than what we've got now".

Should this happen, the people to be held responsable, are those running your present government. Tyranny begets tyranny.

This still does not answer my question. you only say that if people fall for propaganda calling for a Nazi tyranny, it is the losing governments fault - which is a bit too simplistic, for my taste.

You want unlimited free speech. Let's say you get it, the government thus does not fail you, but gives you what you wanted, or better: it does not take freee speech away from you. you are free, then, to use free speech for propagating a new Nazi tyranny, and propagating the banning of free speech. Because the government you doom so easily leaves you that freedom to want that and to speak out for that. The government is not to blame - if anyone is to blame, then you are the one to be blamed.

If free speech gets used to propagate the destruction of free speech, the destruction of the democratic and constitutional order, and installing a new Nazi tyranny like the one we already have had - would that be okay for you? would you accept the outcome? If you do, what would you tell your grandfather's generation for having fought against what you now accept and tolerate?

You evade. A simple answer would be enough. The question is quite easy. do you accept free speech going so far as to reestablish tyrannies of the bast? Do nyou accepot free speech going so far that it demands the desctruction of free speech? Do you accept free speech to be used to topple the constitutonal, democratic, relatovely free state order of the nation in which you reside and that guarantees you a greater ammount of your precious free speech tahn people ever have had in the history of mankind?

Either you do, or you don't.

Free speech has already been killed.
One can not kill that which is already dead.

Free speech can not be tolerated because it may kill free speech?!?!
Sounds like something out of "1984".

If free speech, free thinking, and the democratic process leads to the replacement of your government, so be it.
What that government is replaced with is entirely up to you and your fellow citizens.
Bring back The Kaiser if you like, but remmember to keep it within your own borders.

Nazism did not get Germany into trouble with the rest of the world.
Expansionism did!