But the main isue for me is not who it is its how they did it...

You are sailing on a cargo ship in international waters, suddenly someone boards you. You have the right to deffend your self.

My problem with this situation is WHERE they boarded not who....It could be a Danish navy ship or a royal navy ship...it dosent matter....

You have a national navy ship boarding another nations ship in international waters, that is piracy...

You cant impose national law in international waters EXEPT if you are at a state of war, and Israel is not at war with turkey....

If the Israeli navy had waitet until they were in national water i wouldnt have had a problem with all this...

But they cant deffend them self with "they attacked us" simply because they commitet an act of piracy and every single soul on the ship was in there right to deffend them self.....

If they had waitet until national waters they were in there right to well even sink the damn ship...

But fair or not, they comittet an act of piracy they ended up in a fight but no one can blame anyone on the ship....

Even if they were met with RPG`s and AK-47`s the situation is the same, in international waters any ship have the right to deffend them self.....

There is only one to blame for all this and that the moron who told them to engage before national waters, That person is actualy a candidate for the Haag tribunal...

Ordered an act of piracy
Stopping a aid transport protectet by article 33 of the geneva convention
Killing people in international waters..

If we alow Israel or any nation to do this we can call of any hunt or chase of any pirate in any international water....

I realy dont care who did it, my anger would be the same....someone did it using national law as excuse and it should not happen....

L.T

I think that's a pretty good point. These guys more or less chose to enter the war on Hamas' side. The boarding at this point appears to be illegal (although I wouldn't be surprised if, in a day or two, we find out this took place in Israeli waters after all), but if the Israeli response to that is simply "so what?" then that might be the end of that. They're violating the UN charter, but so is everyone else these days because there are never any consequences for doing so.

EDIT: and another thing, it would be the Turks that are first to complain about the assault on a ship bearing their flag....but it was the Turks themselves that had the power to prevent this by detaining the ship before it attempted to run the blockade. They do have jurisdiction over ships of their own flag, after all.

@TLAM: I'm talking about what is actually justified under international law. What a power can get away with if they want to be shady, dishonest, and (frankly) cowardly is another matter altogether.

Well the difference between the Somali pirates and Israelis is that the Somali pirates didn't murder people.

They've murdered at least two.

Very little when compared to the Israelis. And they themselves have been killed so, it's not like they haven't been punished. Any guess if the Israelis will get any punishment? How many will be shot?

There's also the 250+ hostages they are keeping atm. Don't think they gonna just let them go if they don't get the ransom money. :hmmm:

yes, but Turkey will not do anything. Israel and Turkey have close ties. Turkish politicians will bluster for a few days, Netenyahu may have to do some grovelling, the UN will pass resolutions condemning Israel (what else is new :shifty:), but things will be back to normal soon enough.

Ultimately, everyone is more worried about Hamas than Israel. If the world is not going to go to war over the torpedoing of a South Korean vessel, which was clearly an act of war, they will not go to war over this.

Its werry rare to se a debate about soemthing like this being so polite. Im thrilled about the maturity posters have and its only a minority who work the racist anti Israel stuf.

In general you can se that most people like me are concerned about the part of boarding a ship in international waters. Its hard not to mention Israel since they kinda are the piwates here.:arrgh!:

Those deffending those who attacked the commandos are not Hamas supporters or neo nazis, they are world citicens who are relugtant to accept that you can board a ship in international waters without being in a state of war with the nation who owns the ship.

Most here also accept that if this happend in national waters they wouldnt have had a problem with it.

This atleast for me is not some anti Israel crusade. I dont support terrorists. I dont support piracy i belive in human rights and in the geneva konventions.

Was the agenda of the ships wrong, in the big picture proberbly, knowing what could come out of it. Was the persons wrong to attack the commandos, in general yes...but they were in there right (abusing it ot not) they have the right to deffend the ship

But what i belive is not worth anything. I live by national and international laws, i have to keep my self within those laws. If i break those laws i know i can be punnished either by national laws or international laws.

If we accept that international laws can be broken to uphold national laws there is no reson for the UN, NATO or any international cooperation, to exist every man for him self.

You cant accept international laws being selective " he cant do it but im alowed" then you remove the foundation for any law ever made in every country. We have agreed on International laws we have to follow them or there is no reson for them to exists..

Again im impressed by the calm tone in this topic and im enjoying being part of it :rock:

L.T

Yes, you are North Korea. It's suddenly very clear to me.

But how do you deal with people who are using liberal law to they dirty benefits.
How do you deal with some one who is using European freedom of speech to call against European way of life.
How do you deal with terrorist who use those laws against the very people who passed them?
He is acting whithin the law....
Not everything is black and white.

Just ask money from the US and kill the women and children and torture who ever is left, that's what you always do.

Right...you are really OneToughHerring:zzz:

The one and only.

Btw the whole stolen passport - debacle is still fresh at least in my memory, first that and now this. Looks like Israel has really commenced on a new murderous campaign of terror.

Against who-Innocent women and children???
You just believe what you choose or are toughed to believe i dont think i will change your mind.
You can also believe that we steal Palestinians body organs for transplants in hospitals.

Isn't that kind of heresy, for a Jewish Israeli to call them Palestinians since there is no Palestine? Shouldn't you call them something like, untermench?