The future... if Ubi drops the ball... who takes up the baton? or SCS vs SES vs ....
 

sorry... meant to be a new post not a reply

A whole world campaign with more sides like the British, French, Japanese and so on. And don't rush it out to make a fast buck!

Too much labour, too little return, unless you are willing to pay for it as DLC but even then much as I'd love to see it happen too it's very doubtful.

Besides the bigger you go the less detailed everything becomes.

No matter how much you hate DRM, or don't enjoy what SH5 features (Which is both my case), the SH franchise ending is a tragedy to all of us. New games made new blood pour into our community, and much of it benefitted the older games as well as the new ones and kept them all alive.

Now, we all have voted with our wallet, be it as a direct punishment to UBI or simply as indiference for something we did not like or want to accept, but at the same time a bug-ridden and unfinished games franchise goes down rightfully, the only remaining WW2 submarine games franchise goes down shamefully.

UBI is the only responsable for this, because this is a private market and the losers and those who do not offer the public what they want are doomed. That's the beauty and also tragedy of the market, and it would have been unfair to rescue UBI with our wallets when they were not delivering what we requested.

But still it's a pity.

Farewell, Silent Hunter Series, you were a good and loyal companion, the last hero stadning by us. You decided to self-torpedo, and we regret it. But honestly ... it was deserved, at least in market terms.

Salute :salute:

I totally agree and if that day comes, only then will I buy SH5 as a platform for the modded version. But said mod should essentially be an updated version of SH3 (and SH4 if we're so lucky) with a full campaign and all available boats restored. I have no interest in one sub and only part of WW2. They can also lose the interactive interior since to me that's just a sideshow of sorts. I know a lot of people like it but this is just my preference.

The only problem I have with your argument is if Ubisoft is a business and niche market games are not lucrative, why in hell did they put their foot in it? If they are going to do something...they should follow through to completion and know what they are getting into in the first place. They can't be that blind or stupid (although sometimes wonders never cease).

Silent hunter 6 (If they ever make one.) should include both sides. With other nations included, not just america and germany It should include what the game already has (except bugs) and add onto it.

Other nations submarines...Dream on...

They only found room for 1 type of German submarine in SH5.

I had been hoping for the same thing in SH IV, I was really looking forward to some Japanese I-Boats. Sadly that was a no go. As a For Purchase add-on, what did Ubi release...U-boat Pacific missions! U-boats hardly even operated in the Pacific, and they were so pressed for material that they added a U-boat that was never even operational, the Type XVIII.

It's funny for me to see the way that so many members around here are talking about SH III, 4 or 5 as "submarine simulators". I have one little idea: Let's try to establish one objective fact: SH series are not submarine simulators, none of SH titles truly deserve that status. All we can say is that SH III (but only after heavy modding from the community, represented by GWX, NYGM, WAC, LSH "teams" and a lot of dedicated other groups or individuals) was somehow closest to that idea. A real submarine simulator was Sonalyst's Sub Command.

I remember a number of posts from back in the day where Sub Command was considered too 'arcady', and they were touting 688(i) and Fast Attack as the real simulators. Everything is relative, and compared to what we see today, Sub Command and Dangerous Waters look pretty good. However, I would agree with your point in that the Silent Hunter series was always 'gamier' than the Janes and Sonalysts sims.

Yes, those games that you were talking about put the emphasis on simulation, while the SH series, especially the latest incarnation is more arcadish than simulation oriented. One thing that I can't understand (due to my lack of knowledge in programming ) is why, for example, Sub Command is not being "reworked" by Sonalysts and sold on market again, with some updated graphics and modern day OS compatibility (with a new name, like "Sub Command 2" , for example). I would be one of the first to buy their product. I guess that way, they won't had to invest so much money in a game that already have a solid "basis", with no need of making the research of technology implemented in the game, historical events, campaigns and scenario scripting and so on again. And speaking of SH 5, the same logic: why didn't they just FIX, UPDATE and UPGRADE (with German submarines and why not, with both German and US submarines?) SH4 and then sell it on the market as SH5 - Battle Of "whatever they wanted", instead of making lousy experiments? Rhetoric questions, I suppose ... I have a feeling (I may be wrong, but this is what I think at the moment) that they didn't "conquered" the wallets of so many casual players from the market in the numbers they expected, but they surely lost a lot of submarine games dedicated "fans".

"Niche" games they may be but let's have a look at another "niche" game - The X series by Egosoft.. Very difficult to get into, mostly because the documentation has never been adequate enough and the learning curve could best be described as a learning "cliff". They have a loyal bunch of gamers who frequent the egosoft forums and do much the same things that go on here at subsim. :shucks:

But Egosoft is not only still putting out patches for the last X3 game that came out, they are still adding content to it,a 2 yr old game! They have a healthy rapport with their customers and even have a special forum where you can sign up and help them make the game better.

Yes they are a smaller company but that should make Ubisoft feel even more ashamed of themselves. What they provide for people who buy they games isn't support... it's a travesty, one maybe two patches if we're lucky. Then it's on to the next best thing.

And whilst there are good game companies out there who do the right thing by the customer.. Ubisoft isn't one of them.

For Sonalysts, it is about the bottom line. They are passionate about their work, but the simulation market is just not lucrative when compared to their government contracts. I understand their stance, but it is a shame for us. Their expertise with these systems made for some very deep [no pun intended] simulations.

Easy mookie....I agree with you most of the time bud.

I thought you were saying "I told you so" to the first poster and blaming the unfinished state of SH5 due to the fact the devs were giving "us" what we wanted "a sub interior we would walk around in". Sucking up development time. My bad.

What I also disagree with you on (bugs aside) is that the DEVS had PLENTY of time to come up with a crappy new UI.... that sucked up dev time. If they would have stuck with the tried and true UI, maybe they would have had the time to give us the interior, AND fix a few more bugs.

While I agree this DID suck up considerable time, I disagree that bugs that are carried over from SH3 made it to SH5 because the devs didnt have time to fix them.

Pure economics. When DW came out in 2004, it had no competition, was state of art, highly realistic, had no DRM, was sold at a reasonable price, yet sold poorly.

There was a thread in the DW forum recently on this issue, where a rep of Sonalyst took part. In addition to the fact that Sonalyst is making more money from its defence contracts, any new subsim would require a 3d command room to one or more platform. Irrespective of the potential national security issues, this would require a big investment in manpower, which the company is not willing to make.

but the question could be turned around to ask why do we need a new DW?

DW is highly realistic, even more so now with the new realism mods like LWAMI. It features many sub, air and surface platforms. It has no DRM and very few bugs.

Why arent there more subsimmers playing DW? It has everything the "community" supposedly wants...:hmmm: