SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

SUBSIM Radio Room Forums (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/index.php)
-   General Topics (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=175)
-   -   Haiti earthquake - hell on earth (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=160206)

Skybird 01-18-10 10:37 AM

There is growing diplomatic turmoil over the way the American military handles the crisis and enforces priviliges at the cost of incoming help. France is reported to have intervened in "strong diplomatic protest" over the way the traffic ressources at the airport gets reserved for American aid flights and evacuation flights of people with american passports only. Many aid organisation complain that the runways get blocked for incoming foreign transports because evacuation flights with Americans are expected to take off from there at "some time in the future", and incoming Us military flights with aide are given priority over international aid flights. There is also massive criticism of the militarisation of the aid, the suboptimal directing of air traffic by the military, and fears of the US military using the opportunity to reserve the central part of the show for itself so to win ground in public perception and improve future strategic stand of american policies in Haiti - something the US has tried since long time, without much success.

the least thing I must say is that it is unacceptable to have intervals of 10 minutes and more between takeoffs and landings for the sake of some american planes coming in or taking off, and foreign aid flights even being turned away or told in advance not even to take off fore Haiti. The anger is especially great in France, and on radio some hours ago a german spokesman also expressed outrage about how the situation is handled at the airport by the Us military.

There are also many comments comparing it to the confused, headless and inefficient handling of things during Kathrina. Also on radio today there was an american spokesman of a non-governmental aid organsiation atacking the government for trying to keep foriengers and non-givernmental organisations out in order to establish a priviliged diplomatic position in Haiti from which the aid operation could be used for ongoing political operations in the future, conducted by the white house and the state departement.

I went only briefly over headlines in US papers and find it a bit strange that this international criticism does not get much coverage in US media. It appears as extremely biased to me. Even the Haitians themselves more and more complain aboiut the role of the Americans. I cannot help to get the impression that there are some things going somewhat wrong - and maybe intentionally so.

Hard to judge these things, things certainly are chaotic, and the truth probably lies somewehre between the outraged criticism directed at the US military, and the claims of the government that they have it all well under control. Also one has to note that even the criticism is not united in tone and argument, but is sounding different from many different sources. Possible that things are not as well as the US media paint them, and not as worse as spokesmen of organisation make them appear.

Snestorm 01-18-10 10:52 AM

@Skybird

Quite frankly, I don't see any of these critsisms in the danish press.

As for France: Just a whiney, squeeky, LITTLE wheel. Nothing new.

SteamWake 01-18-10 11:12 AM

Funny the Hatiains chanting in the streets "USA USA" might disagree with that article.

But hey France bashing the US... yes shocking.

August 01-18-10 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake (Post 1239104)
But hey France bashing the US... yes shocking.

Almost as shocking as Skybird posting about it.

Tribesman 01-18-10 11:26 AM

Quote:

As for France: Just a whiney, squeeky, LITTLE wheel. Nothing new.
As for that, the big call is for field hospitals and urgently needed operating theatres for the medical staff already there. These vital emergency facilities supplies which are kept on stand by for events just like this were sent to the DR when the people running the airport refused to let the French planes land .
They will take another week to arrive if they have to truck them in from Santo Domingo.
Diversions like that are just plain stupidity.
The complaints about the handling of the airport are certainly coming thick and fast from all corners of the globe.....even from the US

SteamWake 01-18-10 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 1239114)
As for that, the big call is for field hospitals and urgently needed operating theatres for the medical staff already there. These vital emergency facilities supplies which are kept on stand by for events just like this were sent to the DR when the people running the airport refused to let the French planes land .
They will take another week to arrive if they have to truck them in from Santo Domingo.
Diversions like that are just plain stupidity.
The complaints about the handling of the airport are certainly coming thick and fast from all corners of the globe.....even from the US

They were refusing all aircraft to land not just the french and with good reason. They were out of fuel. If an aircraft landed it would not be able to get out again. But Im sure somehow the US is to blame for that.

As to 'stratigic hospitals' one of the finest in the world is on its way as we speak. USN 'comfort' with a full compliment of staff and crew. :salute: But since she can only muster 12 or so knots it will be another day or two.

Theres also the 'security' issue...

Quote:

Port-au-Prince, Haiti (CNN) -- Earthquake victims, writhing in pain and grasping at life, watched doctors and nurses walk away from a field hospital Friday night after a Belgian medical team evacuated the area, saying it was concerned about security.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americ...nts/index.html

Then theres the dammed if you do and dammed if you dont... But hey consider the source ;)

Quote:

"I read that 3,000 soldiers are arriving, Marines armed as if they were going to war. There is not a shortage of guns there, my God. Doctors, medicine, fuel, field hospitals, that's what the United States should send," Chavez said on his weekly television show. "They are occupying Haiti undercover."
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST...rpc=22&sp=true

Good old Hugo... he may be insane but he's consistant.

AVGWarhawk 01-18-10 12:00 PM

Quote:

As to 'stratigic hospitals' one of the finest in the world is on its way as we speak. USN 'comfort' with a full compliment of staff and crew. :salute: But since she can only muster 12 or so knots it will be another day or two.

It takes the Comfort 5 days to prepare to get under way. They attempted to do it in 2 days. Not enough time. Basically last Thursday was the day she was really activated to load and go.

Tribesman 01-18-10 12:08 PM

Quote:

They were refusing all aircraft to land not just the french and with good reason.
No they were not, that was 3 days ago. They are allowing 4 flights an hour with 18 aircraft permitterd at any one time.

Quote:

As to 'stratigic hospitals' one of the finest in the world is on its way as we speak. USN 'comfort' with a full compliment of staff and crew.
Really, post#7
Quote:

But since she can only muster 12 or so knots it will be another day or two.
So thats no good to the medical staff from the Red Cross and MSF already there who are complaining that their vital equipment is being diverted away from them is it.

One of the first posts mentioned the need for speed in the response, you yourself wrote not to wait but go ahead and get the job done.
Now when agencies and governmentsd are complaining that the response is being slowed and the job is not getting done people say that its just bashing the US.:hmmm:

SteamWake 01-18-10 12:18 PM

Well when they specifically call out the US as being at the root of the problems yes I would consider that bashing.

But yea I know your opinion so I'll just leave it at that.

This just hit the wire

Quote:

30 Americans hurt in Haiti in 'mass casualty event': US officials30 Americans hurt in Haiti in 'mass casualty event': US officials
Guess they got hurt while impeading progress.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

AVGWarhawk 01-18-10 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 1239084)
There is growing diplomatic turmoil over the way the American military handles the crisis and enforces priviliges at the cost of incoming help. France is reported to have intervened in "strong diplomatic protest" over the way the traffic ressources at the airport gets reserved for American aid flights and evacuation flights of people with american passports only. Many aid organisation complain that the runways get blocked for incoming foreign transports because evacuation flights with Americans are expected to take off from there at "some time in the future", and incoming Us military flights with aide are given priority over international aid flights. There is also massive criticism of the militarisation of the aid, the suboptimal directing of air traffic by the military, and fears of the US military using the opportunity to reserve the central part of the show for itself so to win ground in public perception and improve future strategic stand of american policies in Haiti - something the US has tried since long time, without much success.

the least thing I must say is that it is unacceptable to have intervals of 10 minutes and more between takeoffs and landings for the sake of some american planes coming in or taking off, and foreign aid flights even being turned away or told in advance not even to take off fore Haiti. The anger is especially great in France, and on radio some hours ago a german spokesman also expressed outrage about how the situation is handled at the airport by the Us military.

There are also many comments comparing it to the confused, headless and inefficient handling of things during Kathrina. Also on radio today there was an american spokesman of a non-governmental aid organsiation atacking the government for trying to keep foriengers and non-givernmental organisations out in order to establish a priviliged diplomatic position in Haiti from which the aid operation could be used for ongoing political operations in the future, conducted by the white house and the state departement.

I went only briefly over headlines in US papers and find it a bit strange that this international criticism does not get much coverage in US media. It appears as extremely biased to me. Even the Haitians themselves more and more complain aboiut the role of the Americans. I cannot help to get the impression that there are some things going somewhat wrong - and maybe intentionally so.

Hard to judge these things, things certainly are chaotic, and the truth probably lies somewehre between the outraged criticism directed at the US military, and the claims of the government that they have it all well under control. Also one has to note that even the criticism is not united in tone and argument, but is sounding different from many different sources. Possible that things are not as well as the US media paint them, and not as worse as spokesmen of organisation make them appear.

Do not believe everything you read Skybird. In short, the media sucks for the most part and is very inconsistent in a lot they 'report' on. Christ, they had the USNS Comfort already steaming to Haiti on Wednesday....she was still in port located 10 minutes from my home. That was Thursday. The only outrage here is once again the world belittles US efforts to assist. How about using those efforts in the assistance? It is far easier to be critical than to actually do something.

Snestorm 01-18-10 12:32 PM

I don't even see France in the donors' list, while USA is picking up 33% of the bill.

http://ocha.unog.ch/fts/reports/dail...1001180205.pdf

What gives France a right to priority?

Tribesman 01-18-10 12:38 PM

Quote:

Well when they specifically call out the US as being at the root of the problems yes I would consider that bashing.
If someone is in charge then its them that takes the blame if it doesn't work right.
But be happy now as the US has handed over the allocation of landing slots to the UN so poeple can blame them now if they are turned away.

Quote:

'mass casualty event'
Is that a bus crash?

SteamWake 01-18-10 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 1239158)
Is that a bus crash?

Un known at this time. I'm assuming its a building collapse or some sort.

I'm not going to speculate.

AVGWarhawk 01-18-10 12:46 PM

Quote:

But be happy now as the US has handed over the allocation of landing slots to the UN so poeple can blame them now if they are turned away.

Welcome to the power struggle. Do you realize this effort for aid falls under the State Dept jurisdiction here in the US? You realize who runs the State Dept correct?

Snestorm 01-18-10 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk (Post 1239169)
Welcome to the power struggle. Do you realize this effort for aid falls under the State Dept jurisdiction here in the US? You realize who runs the State Dept correct?

Secretary of State = Minister of Foreign Affairs = Hillary

Lille Bush and Bill are both out collecting donations (Together).


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:21 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2025 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.