Even the gay communtiy years back vaunted it as a lifestyle choice, but then saw it more fitting to have it defined as being a natural selection when one is born. Personally, I think there are a few things that need to be looked at. One study that was already cited in this thread suggested that children who are confused about their sexuality are more apt to grow to be gay. This suggest to me that there is a reason why the confusion exists and confusion can be overcome. The gay people I know personally have had abusive childhoods, this could be a factor... One gay man who is a friend of mine willingly admits that he turned gay after being rejected by women once too often, so in his case clearly this was a choice on his part. I do feel that hormonal and emotional adaptation changes in a human being to the point where they may feel within themselves that this is indigenous process rather than exogenous. I have always been a staunch supporter of Mendel's law in which adaptation in evolution occurs after sensory stimuli has occured. This is proven in the medical field and perfectly explains the races as we know ourselves to be. Hormones are a powerful driver for the human psyche. This may be a factor in adults who are experiencing confusion over their sexuality to the point where they seek a sex change surgically. It is easy to say we are what we are just because....In truth there is a reason. Chinese people look the way they do because of Mendel's law, as does everybody really. The un-educated advocate of evolution would say of the asian or black race that they look the way they do because they are not as far on the evolutionary scale as a caucasion, in other words they feel they are closer to their primate ancestors. That is ridiculous obviously! The black race has unique hair and often wider nostrils. The reason is because the sensory stimuli after living for generations in a very hot dry climate resulted in evolutionary adaptation. The hair helps radiate heat from the cranium and the wider nostrils help one to breath in such an environment etc.. etc.. So we see incredible changes of adaptabilty in the human race, but these changes only occur after the fact and not before it. My premise is that the same thing happens sexually...

All of the above I guess. Historically it has it roots steeped in religion with a view toward family. Some crazy guy must have come up with some silly notion that when men and women get together and do the hokey pokey, 9 months later... well you know, here we are...

Ah, read my post a few back that stated, the American voter has said it say and opposed gay marriage. For some reason, you have focused on gay males and did not address my question concerning lesbian relationships that preclude anal sex. No one is opposing a diverse view, only questioning and countering. It is called a debate. :D

I believe it is a social contract and the contracts wording is found among religious groups often found in the bound book called the Bible the groups believe in. The states, countries laws as the fine print bestow some benefits as a result of the binding social contract. The laws also bestow grievious aftermath if the contract is broken in a form called divorce. In short, you get your ass taken to the cleaners.

I suppose I just happen to know and encounter gay males and it is one side of the coin to be sure. I am not really sure about lesbians. My gut tells me they are more monogomous than men in their relationships. They have a far, far less history of dealing with AIDS than men do. Which was an illustration of sexual behavior that can and does bring on a dread disease. Men, even heterosexuals tend to be wired for sex. Women seem to be wired for a more emotional impact that pervades both gay and straight lifestyles. I cannot speak on behalf of why each person chose to vote the way they did. My reasons stem from my own personal observations of how I view the life cycle and try to gage it with the science i know. Some may have religious views regarding it. But for most I am guessing that they simply do not view gay marriage in light of traditional marriage. traditional marriage is the ground zero of the family, so I would logically Infere that others see this as being deleterious to the family institution. Mating men and women equal the human race and its continuance. Mating men and men, women and women do not, it is a very simple concept that I think people negotiate within themselves without any religious guidance.

Probably the clearest retort I have read concerning your thoughts on the matter. It is a very touchy subject and full of gray area like no other. But, back to the original concept of this thread. Obama has to pick someone for the invocation. Even if it was Mickey Mouse, someone for PETA would be complaining. So goes the nature of the human mind that everyone has an agenda and is out to get them. As we both agreed, California has spoken on question 8, America has spoken as a whole on the subject. Thus the gay community will have to battle on.

I heard one statement yesterday that we can expect Obama to be more to the right than McCain would be...No matter what, I hope he does a stellar job because that is good for everyone.

Well, this s the mistake that continues to be made. You don't have to be gay to be effected by a gay persons right to equal rights, and the same goes for abortion. If you beleive, as I do, in equal rights for all Americans, and a woman's right to choose, it effects you. The erosion of our rights effects you. I take it personally. I don't understand why we don't all take it personally.

I guess it is the right to choose what people view as being right or wrong. Social issues have been debated as recorded history has shown. The unborn fetus has no say so in the matter. It is not a tumor, but a human being in developmental stages, so why should a woman who avails herself to sexual intercourse be allowed to treat a developing baby as though it were somthing less than human?

An entirely different debate, and one that, if we are going to have it (again) we should do so in another thread....

My point was simply that these debates don't just effect gay people, and women. When it comes to matters of choice and rights, I feel we should all feel effected by the outcome of the debate, whatever the outcome may be.

I think the word "rights" is overused in this country. And I have every right to think that way:D

Agreed, I have had my share of this at least till the new year...Have an enjoyable holiday...:up:

Reminds me when my son started driving and got a nice big fat ticket for doing donuts in a parking lot. I took his keys and removed the distributor until he completed community service and another drivers ed course. He tried laying this trip on me that he has a "right" to drive. Yeah, I was all broken up over his rights. Crazy kid...:D