Some of the response from the EU etc to Wilders film

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/eu...ef=mpstoryview

For a film criticised to be so wrong and unimportant, there is surprisngly much smoke in the air, since weeks. Guess although they say there isn't - nevertheless somewhere there is a big fire out there. :hmm:

I prescribe as little attention as possible. Take continously until hysterical reactionism is in remission.

Although this is interesting.

Well, copyrights must be respected, sure. Let's shut down all of youtube and lifeleak since there is copyright infringement taking place from day to night with video clips and music and picture material as well - like Wilder's film, in a non-commercial context.

I wonder why the man does not take legal action against any other sites and opportunities where his cartoon has been shown out of the original context on hundreds if not thousands of internet sites, newspapers, and TV reports.

Well, yeah. How many times have you clicked a YouTube link and it's been removed because of a terms of use violation? Happens all the time.

Well, newspapers & TV reports are one thing, whereas a polemic is something very different. Usage of his drawing implies support, and adds meaning. A news report does not.

Many muslim leaders condem the film for depicting Islam as violent and warn there might be violent protests.:rotfl:

From LiveLeak

Note: Due to high traffic and DDOS attacks the site may be unusually slow. We're working on resolving these issues...thanks for your patience.
:roll:

LiveLeak and YouTube have published all kind of Islamist films, even beheadings in full. Why should this be banned..

And why are they not shocked about the content, they dont condem the muslim leaders and people in the film. They dont feel bad to see see the 3yo little girl calling Jews apes and pigs? :roll: We would be shocked to see someone abuse our children like this. They now the film is true and dont care!!!!

Got trough to LiveLeak.:nope:

"Following threats to our staff of a very serious nature, and some ill informed reports from certain corners of the British media that could directly lead to the harm of some of our staff, Liveleak.com has been left with no other choice but to remove Fitna from our servers.
This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net but we have to place the safety and well being of our staff above all else. We would like to thank the thousands of people, from all backgrounds and religions, who gave us their support. They realised LiveLeak.com is a vehicle for many opinions and not just for the support of one.
Perhaps there is still hope that this situation may produce a discussion that could benefit and educate all of us as to how we can accept one anothers culture.
We stood for what we believe in, the ability to be heard, but in the end the price was too high."

This is a very sad day.

Was to be expected. Another battle won by Islam and lost by the West. I wondered that they even dared it. but they overestimated themselves - and the obligations of the state and police to protect them.

Anyhow, the thing is out, and I am sure it will be circulating somehow and somwhere. Not that it is brilliant, but it points finger at the obvious markings. and that is more than almost all the West is doing regarding appeasement of Islam.

Yelling the loudest and being barbaric may prove the correctness of criticising Islam - but it pays off. and the prey does not want to hear about it's future fate anyway. Where is our leaders making a stand for europe in the face of the greatest threat to free mankind ever? where are the clear voices that tell the trutzh to the people? Ph yes, we leave them in the rain, we bind their mothes by law, we chase them away and make them moving into exile in foreign nations, refusing to protect them here in place.

Wanted: voluntary lambs for slaughter! Europe, thy name is cowardice, so thine shall be your self-chosen fate, well deserved.

I think i am close to stop standing up for Europeans and defending them. Thinking in terms of societies, they are not worth it anymore. They are old, weak and anxious - all what disgusts me, and what I am not. Senile old dodderers with infantile wishes and memories of gold an glory from the past long since gone on their shapeless minds. I think not before wider groups of population stand up against their governments and send them to hell i will consider to start supporting Europe again. I am too good to waste my energy on a fearsome flock of sheep. Bah.

Some months ago, I actively supported a Bürgerinitiative (citizens initiative) that in the end successfully prevented the gropwing of a mosque in a part of the city wehre no is no Muslim community at all, I repeatedly told you that. but you do not know the latest news: when it was about their immediate neighbourhood, the local residents supported us. now, that the immediate danger is banned, many of them as well as some mebers of that initiative are changing colours again, suddenly saying how tolerant we should be and that Islam is not that bad at all and that they have nothing against it. Can't believe I invested my energy in these wrynecks (wendehälse). Next time they need support, I'll slam my door in their faces. that the chairman of that initiative who also represented them at court also received death threats, and that his wife was intimidated on open street and repeatedly threatened with violence - forgiven and forgotten. Last time I telephoned with him he said he wouldn't do it again - people would not be worth it. He was even more dissapointed than I am. He is teaching at university, and thinks about quitting there in frustration as well - them too left him alone in the rain. Wouldn't be surprised if he takes his wife and leaves germany all together. Many do that these days, numbers growing. and it is our higher middle an top class, qualified manual workers and specialists as well as medical, technical and scientific academics , while their places get filled with unqualified foreigners. Go figure. The shift is already to be seen in statistics.

History moves in cycles, and the bad days return. We have learned nothing.

PC in Canada
 

Just found this in CBC's archives - just a point to prove that this sort of thing is going on in Canada as well:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2007/12...-macleans.html

This story made me uncomfortable when I first heard it awhile ago, and I didn't want to let it slip by without others here knowing about it.

The film is live on Wikileaks.


http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Fitna_anti..._Geert_Wilders

Finally got the time to watch it.

I have not seen anything why this movie should be forbidden.

I have also not seen anything new. 15 minutes of the kind of images we have grown used to seeing over the last 20,30 years. 15 minutes of outgrowths of Islamism and the ugly side of the muslim world. And at the end messages in my face like "Islam wants you to make way for itself, but Islam does not make way for you". Well, I have met quite a few Muslims who made way for me.

Anyway. These things exist, and they make me angry too. I still don't see why Heer Wilders thinks we should condemn a billion people.

One could produce similar movies with disturbing images against anything, show respective subtitles and music and gullible people would leave the cinema thinking they'd have gained deep insight - as to who is the main evil in the world.

For instance I could show images of animals being killed and mutilated and then fat disgusting people enjoying meat and wearing animals skins - to make a movie that attacks humanity as a whole. *Humanity has already killed 80 trillion animals .. now lets watch an animal being killed in slow motion .. humanity is a fascist ideology .. stop humanity .. blah blah blah*

I think this is nothing but propaganda, but everyone should feel free to see it.

And we should not forget that islamism is a threat.

Biting as always:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3_qelW5qp4

Meanwhile, some people at liveleak came to their senses and took their courage-pills: the video is back online under the same adress.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103

This they gave as a public statement above of the video-window:

On the 28th of March LiveLeak.com was left with no other choice but to remove the film "fitna" from our servers following serious threats to our staff and their families. Since that time we have worked constantly on upgrading all security measures thus offering better protection for our staff and families. With these measures in place we have decided to once more make this video live on our site. We will not be pressured into censoring material which is legal and within our rules. We apologise for the removal and the delay in getting it back, but when you run a website you don't consider that some people would be insecure enough to threaten our lives simply because they do not like the content of a video we neither produced nor endorsed but merely hosted.

I love LiveLeak! I think the film isnt very good, 15min is just too short. Its the principle that was under threat. Have to send support email for the staff in LiveLeak.

Agree on both. but actually, a reasonable film about Islam today would have no effect and would be talked to death. I also think that Wilders knows that and for that reason chosed a more brute directness to deliver the call. If getting talked into subtle beauty and reasonable relativising anyway, way keeping on to whisper?

However, some reactions to him are simply wrong. As Germany's Henryk Broder pointed out, there is little sense in accusing him to be a rightwing populist: first, so Broder, politically Wilders is an extreme liberalist (says Broder who usually writes for Der Spiegel, a weekly politics magazine associated with the centre and slight Left, and Die Welt, associated with the political centre, so he is hardly suspicious to be a "rightwing populist" himself), and second, what Wilders is doing is not popular at all. but this label "rightwing populist", so continues Broder, today has the same defaming overkill-capacity like "communist" in the 50s and 60s and "fascist" in the 70s and 80s - it holds no argument or justification in itself and puts all responsibility of the consequences onto the shoulder sof the perpetrator triggering them. "If Wilders would have started to rumble with the dutch association of flower traders, Wilder's private life still would be intact" (and he would not need police protection and sleeping in a different house every night), says Broader: "Sadly, in this context one has to point out that it is not obsessive enthusiasm that strips Wilders of his private life, but the memory of why and how a dutch film maker named Theo van Gogh was murdered (...) who still would have had an untroubled private life today if he wouldn't have made the mistake to make an Islam-critical film. Comforting it is, that Wilders 'did not repeat the mistake that van Gogh was making: to connect sexuality with Islam what back then was not taken well by the less-moderate Muslims, that surely would have multiplied the explosive danger', wrote a Muslim woman at Spiegel Online who did not felt offended by Wilders movie at all, she said. And she went even that far to point out that Wilders 'in principle only showed obvious facts - just a bit one-sided' ".

Ignoring for a moment that it appears to be a bit exaggerated to kill somebody just because he has a different opinion - could facts be described any different than one-sided?

Is there a way to document the murdering of Theo van Gogh, the beheading of Daniel Pearle, the execution of a woman in Kabul, the hanging of homosexuals and the stoning of adulteress' any different than "one-sided"? Accordingly, would one not need to point out when reporting on a plane disaster that just took place, that this does not happen any day, and that most airliners land in one piece - just for not getting accused of reporting "one-sided"?

Wilder's film is as "one-sided" as Michael Moore's films are "anti-capitalistic". the hostility is not in the eye of the beholder, but the nature of the to-be-watched object. to the regular set of rites, by which speakers of Muslim communities react to the statement that Islam is not purely and always the religion of peace, belongs the practice to threat violence if this "offence" is not being taken back."

Broder ends with what I have said from the very beginning in this thread: that the movie's content is not the important part anyway, but the ridiculous reactions amongst Western politicians he was able to trigger by just saying that he is doing that movie. It reveals the EU to be a paper-tiger only, while the UN's president was condemning the film to the maximum. "This were reactions and statements for which we wait in vain when Islamists call for djihad, fanatics commit another massacre of infidels, or holocaust-deniers organise conferences. Because the only purpose of these statements was to avoid consequences like in 2006 when a dozen of harmless Muhammad caricatures started an extensive fire of indignation from Jakarta to Rabat and made western politics to call for "de-escalation" - but their appeal did not address the fire raisers who burned Danish flags and devastate foreign embassies - but the Europeans who watched the events unfolding without any idea of what to do.

It was like this when a harmless British teacher was giving a teddy-bear the name Muhammad. It was like this when Salman Rushdie received knighthood by the Queen: Muslims clamoured against it, and the Westerners went low and took cover.

And now the "rightwing populist" Wilders gets sacrificed on the altar of appeasement. He is no artist, and his film is no masterpiece. It is a brute demand just to take note of the obvious reality, at least this."