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-   -   One mans opinion of Left v. Right (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108213)

RedMenace 03-23-07 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1
Quote:

Originally Posted by Letum
Under capitalism you can get a better car than your neighbor if you sit on your arse all day and own a factory.
Your neighbor works hard 12 hours a day on a factory floor, but he still earns far less than you and his car is crap, even tho he actually works far more than you.

Under socialism the only way you can get a better car than your neighbor is if you actually chose to do harder work than he does.
Now everyone owns a percentage of the factory, so no one can earn money by just owning something that makes money for them by exploiting the workers. Instead of the factory exploiting the workers, the workers exploit the factory. The more hours work you do, and the harder the work, the bigger the percentage of the factory you own and so the more money you make.

I guess you still don't get it. The guy with the factory already risked his butt and all he had on a gamble of trying to make something. He can sit on his butt the rest of his life if he wants, but I have never known a person who created something like this to sit idle. They are out creating something new and wonderful. This one guy has created two things now, and will probably increase things exponentially until he has a major industrial base going for him. Back in the Socialistic / Communistic idea - all your guys still have only 1 factory to the 10+ that the capatalistic guy has.



-S

What the hell? Whats with this idea that the more **** you own, the more people you exploit, and the fatter your wallet, the bigger success you are in life. It's despicable.

ASWnut101 03-23-07 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

True, I just ran out of time. Had to post short.


Please read all of the replies!:up:

ASWnut101 03-23-07 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedMenace
What the hell? Whats with this idea that the more **** you own, the more people you exploit, and the fatter your wallet, the bigger success you are in life. It's despicable.


Well, tell me what your idea of sucess is.

RedMenace 03-23-07 11:47 PM

Pretty much everything OPPOSITE of what I mentioned. The more people you help, the more wealth you spread, the better person you are. I don't care how nice your car is, how big your house is, if I see someone driving a Ferrari around, I dont think "Wow what a success he must be." No, I think "Wow, what a jackass."

Ishmael 03-24-07 01:18 AM

The problem, as I see it, is corporatism, not capitalism. Corporations are an artificial structure expressly designed to avoid individual or collective liability for corporate actions. I believe multi-national corporations actually prefer authoritarian governments because they provide labor peace through suppression of the labor force. Since they are, technically, citizens of the country of their incorporation, they are heir to all the rights of property available to such citizens. Simultaneously, because they are not real persons, they do not serve in the armed forces , but can obtain contracts from that government for profit. Their only alliegance is to their board & shareholders and their only motive to make the greatest amount of profit possible. When you have Jack Welch, former Chairman of GE, wishing in an interview that their factories could be built on barges so they could be towed to the part of the world where labor is cheapest and you have a race to the bottom. Now with those corporations hiring their own mercenary armies, they are becoming de facto states themselves.

The demographic fact is that overpopuation, resource exhaustion & the nature of corporate growth are leading to a two-tier society with the wealthy power elite living in their private reserves, deaf to the cries of human suffering from the vast majority living in grinding poverty and despair. At least with feudalism & the Divine Right of Kings, there was noblesse oblige. The nobility had a religious obligation to care for the poor & downtrodden, even though it was more honored in the breach.

Regarding communism, I believe it's failure is directly related to the absence of Zen thinking among communists. A Zen Communist, on taking power, would immediately give everything to the poor, send the government home, declare Communism achieved and resign his office. Thus the state would wither away.

Skybird 03-24-07 05:20 AM

"Zen Communism"...? :lol:

Ishmael 03-25-07 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird
"Zen Communism"...? :lol:

Hey, a Zen Nazi would have been a Zionist. Don't like the Jews? Send them where they want to go & they'll pay you for the privelege.

A Zen christian thanks god for this life.

A Zen Muslim would annoy the hell out of you on your doorstep like the Baptists, Pentacostals & Jehovah's witnesses do.

It's the Wei Wu Wei, the "doing without bothering".

Skybird 03-25-07 01:02 PM

:lol:
That are without doubt the queerest explanations of wu wei and zionism i ever red anywhere! Good one!

Wim Libaers 03-25-07 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird
If one sees the value of life only in goals defined by a purely materialistic philosophy, a debate like this necessarily must go like it does. The definition of "success" as given in this thread also is very poor and self-limiting, imo. It does justice to trained doves in experiments, maybe, but not to humans.

Of course, even if you expand te definition of success to academic or cultural achievements, there are still reasons to oppose socialist government, as they generally seem to require so many restrictions on personal freedom that those things, too, become harder. Of course, it would be unfair to attack socialism specifically for this, as it is but one of the systems that restrict too much. But it is one of them.


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