We discuss EU a lot in this UK-Politics thread

I will therefore post an translated article from a Danish newspaper.

"
EU countries have committed themselves to pursuing a common foreign policy that is intergovernmental. Denmark does not have a reservation regarding foreign policy and is therefore also involved in the area. Foreign policy decisions in the EU must be taken unanimously.

However, the Liberal Party wants to change the latter. The Liberal Party's EU rapporteur, Kim Valentin, says that the party wants to introduce a qualified majority to strengthen the EU's foreign policy. This means that all countries - incl. Denmark - will lose their veto.

If this is introduced, Denmark may be forced to support a foreign policy, which we have voted against in the EU, because a qualified majority consisting of Germany, France and other EU-enthusiastic countries have voted yes.

According to the Liberal Party's rapporteur, Denmark will not be weakened by losing its veto. On the contrary, we become stronger
"

Markus

Not me bringing this up, usually all things turning out 'not so nice' are blamed on the EU, e.g. outcome and problems of brexit or such :D
Yes, if all agree this should become a standard. Like in the UK b.t.w.
OMG imagine if Scotland and Ireland voted against independence because England said it was the only way to all stay in the EU, and what happened to those countries when a small majority in England voted to leave.

Accepting unanimous votes can be tricky.. and we can also discuss danish matters here that are not entirely danish :D
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-...rkel/100180282

The need to decide in unity often was the last remaining safety saving European states form getting plowed under by opportunistic profiteers wanting to benefit from unwanted decisions in their favour, from money and economy, to migration and ideology.



I fear the day when simple majority decisions are enough when the states wanting to suck more in from their milk cow states that are net payers, or who want more centralised and EU statehood, can push this through just by clumping together and forming a rat pack biting those who have to pay for it or have to give up themselves. These things always work only at one direciton, its always only a one-lane street, and we can see it with the Euro already, where the net payers more and more lost their options in last years to block demands by net recievers for increasing budgets, giving the ECB ever more power it is by treaties not legitimated to hold, and to collectivise debts.


Fans of big state and deep state of course love simple majority, it gives ever so more power to the populists on the pro-EU side of things. Effective resistence to the block is no more possible then. Applause for this execution of unwanted resistence! brussels prevails!



Its exactly this inherent issue that makes me supporting Brexit and hoping that it becomes a successful challenge to the EU, motivating others to confront the block, too. Britain. Switzerland. Norway and Iceland said to be increaisngly unhappy. Right wing rising in many countries of the block in reaction to the ever growing eagerness of the eU to turn into one continental superstate and national parliaments having nothign to say anymore, rendering voters meaningless. They already are just nodding machines for over 90% of daily business.



Because what meaning has an election for an operetta parliament where several hundred million people should/could vote for other people from other countries about whose political estblishmenets they know nothing and about whose politicians they know not much as well? Its a perverting of democracy which originally was meant to self-adminster smallest possible communities at the very local, regional basis, at the very smallest cell imaginablee for economic/political adminstration: the "deme", consisting of as small an entity as even just one single farm. The eU wants to become the exact, the utmost opposite of this real meaning of democracy. It wants to abuse it as an alibi. Like China does. Like Putin does. Like Turkey does. They all have elections. They all talk of freedom and democracy. They all say "for the people".



Now it is up to the Europeans to swallow the very same poison pills. And those who hope they will get more money from it than they give into it, will love the idea. And demagogues of the the sickest kind will climb the ladders on the power hierarchies, becasue the more unscrupulous you cheta and lie and the smellier you stink the more entzsiastic people beoeuive youk, becasue they want to beleive all the fairy tales of miracles and wonder, glory and wekath, freedom and "the heavens pay for it".



Stupid germans. Damn freaking stupid Germans. Always on the wrong side of history and things. They seem to have a gene for it. I could pull my hair out over Germans, if I still would have some hair.

Well, if it is about Germany, it profits heavily from the Eu, as did the UK. Logical that Germany does not want to change much as long as the small "profiteers" do not really spoil the wins. As soon as they do .. not yet though. Also funny how Greece instantly pulls out the Nazi club when they see their model of tax fraud challenged by the majority of the EU.

"Opportunistic profiteers", may i remind you it was just of all those who initiated and executed 'brexit', never the "man from the street". How utterly "democratic" if the media are owned by the very supporters and being used as a weapon, when the medium itself becomes the message and not any content, or unwanted "truth".

The EZB policy is what every nation or 'kingdom' does and has done, to master a crisis: master it. And print money if necessary. Nothing extaordinary, instead the spending saved the ahem 'behind' of a lot of companies, and thus jobs. What is a bit of inflation over years against a complete instant downfall? Ah yes, you would prefer the latter.
I would reluctantly note that that it is the right wing, brexiters, anti vaxxers and generally rather dumb persons (sorry, but not really sorry) who are quite populist in the last years; the EU to a much lesser degree (if at all).

And oh yes the government is so bad and all the unhappy folks would have protested, but it was going to rain, and I cannot be bothered to go into politics myself to change things because i am too lazy and others do it better. But complain and protest i will, so much more fun!

Without the EU the UK would have to face a much stronger wind blowing, be sure. But then it seems this is what you want? Let England happily join the WTO and forget what Australia's minister had said about "things leave a lot to be desired", in comparison with something like the EU. "[...] if the UK is seeking to negotiate a future trade arrangement with the EU on "Australian terms" this would be similar to, though not exactly the same as, a "no deal" on "WTO terms".
Only England's yellow press sees this different, and frankly no one gives a "$h!ß what they write.

Thank you Catfish and Skybird.

Your answer was interesting. While reading it I came to a kind of a conclusion.
We NEED a EU-thread.

EU affect many of us here on this great forum in one way or the other.

Markus

^ and i thought this one is the real (anti-)EU thread ;)

I found your post (the one above Catfish) most insightful and in kilter with my understanding and I'll also respect your deletion and leave it alone :03:

?? Wasn't there a majority among the voters in Scotland and Northern Ireland to remain in EU ??

Here I'm thinking Does EU see UK as one or do they see Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales as free countries, who are tied together by some law/rule with Britain.

When it return I will post it here or in a new thread-Forgot what I wanted to write :wah:

Markus

Exactly. And what happened?

As posted before :O:

https://i.imgur.com/sq4y9fu.jpg

< Now I remember.

Continue from last post:

If simple majority decisions was a part of EU would they have accepted the outcome of the British referendum ?

Meaning-If EU sees Scotland, N.I and Wales as independent states, would they have accepted it ?

Markus

I take it England and maybe Wales would have left, but not Scotland and Ireland.
Some kind of blackmailing to demand leaving the EU because England wants it. As the joke goes, "England, Scotland and Ireland went to a pub but they all had to leave because England wanted to", only a few years after promising the only way to remain in the EU was to remain in the UK, and no indepencence for its members.

It is not about sovereignty, England and the UK always had it, it is also not about immigrants, because immigrants are as free or prohibited to enter the UK as before brexit, but this Cummings slogan "Take back control" hit a nerve, adding Farage's nazi-like queues poster with the threat of immigrants waiting to invade England ummmm the UK, or the Boris brexit bus with the fund the NHS slogan.
Some lies at the right time and spots, and that's it. No one took the time or effort to try to understand how the EU really works or what it does, Farage's "unelected breaucrats" and all those other lies.
I have posted a list of invented lies about the EU numerous times, only to read the same BS a few days later again.

Maybe there is an economical advantage in the long run (ten-twenty years from now) but frankly? I doubt it. England importing and exporting goods e.g. from and to Australia instead from and to your neighbour makes so much sense? All treaties and "deals" (real TrumpSpeak eh?) England has managed to sign are not one yota better than what the EU treaties gave them, most are worse.

The only winners are people like Rees-Mogg and some (and only some) companies. One of the biggest brexit supporters like vacuum-Dyson who promptly moved their business to Singapore and Rees-Mogg to the republic of Ireland, when brexit threatened their profits.

The EU says its patience is "wearing very thin" with the UK in talks aimed at avoiding a trade war over Northern Ireland border checks.

Exports of sausages and other chilled meats from Great Britain to Northern Ireland will effectively be banned at the end of the month.

The UK says it is ready to ignore the ban to prevent further disruption.

Top EU official Maros Sefcovic warned tariffs - taxes on imports - could be imposed if that happens.

Speaking after a meeting with the UK's Brexit minister Lord Frost, Mr Sefcovic said he was "positive we can find a solution, where there is a will there is a way".

But he added: "Our patience really is wearing very, very thin, and therefore we have to assess all options we have at our disposal."
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-57403258

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEth44Tuf3s

"Expect frank discussions when Biden meets with Johnson".

Like in case of a German referendum not all 16 federla states would have independent votes and some states would leave the Eu and some wopuld stay, but all 16, under thre German flag would be united a sone in such a vote, Scotland, wale,s Northern Ireland and England were untied as one nation in the Brexit vote.

Its double standards to demand that eahc of these four regions should be treated as if they were 4 independent states. They are not, they are one. And in this one nation, a short majority voted Yes.

Live with it, Catfish. A majority of the UK population said Yes to Brexit. A majority of the UK population. The UK is not four nations, but one. Like Germany is not 16 nations, but one.

When any of the Gemrna federla states or the four UK regions becomes fully independent - then, and not one day earlier, the argument you raise makes kind of sense.

Personally , if the Irish or Scots would want to leave, I support them, as a loibertarian I respect the right for self-administration. But not if they cannot pay their bills on their own, but expect others to pay for them. Expect us, that is. A nation that cannot live by its own means, is not independent, even if it declares independence. It is indeed very dependent then. Independency is not a formality only. Its economic and military strength: you can afford to pull your own weight, and you can defend your ability to do so. Any other, more sentimental thinking on this - is drivel only.

Dependency is something that you need to be able to afford. And if cou cannot afford it, forget independence. You are not independent if you depend.

^ True in the major scope, but regarding independence and the UK being "one nation" you should ask Ireland and Scotland (and even Wales) and especially England what they think of this ;)
Ireland, Scotland and Wales are still treated as lesser members by Whitehall, always good for votes at least until now but not for real improvement and development; held short intentionally or so it looks from here.

If you say they have to make their kowtos because they cannot pay their bills alone i take it this is not the criterium for all considerations. And Ireland of course could pay, Scotland would have to think and make plans itself for a change; they have oil, whisky, a lot of resources (from geological advantages, to fish, to tourism). Unless this planning happens they are probably better suited where they are now.
I do not think the UK construction is an entirely bad thing, but then it is basically what 51 percent of England criticises the EU for, like you can see HERE :D

Brexit is through in all possible meanings of this word, and thus hardly worth posting in the news over here anymore. A bit different than in England and the UK for obvious reasons. And a lot of english goods, spare parts etc do not reach Ireland anymore (and vice versa), and (from own experience) Germany. Also a friend waiting for his paid Jag E windscreen since at least five months because of "trade problems". This alone does would not spoil the big picture, but i guess it is true for a lot of branches and trade.

I wished (and still do) the people in the nations of the UK all the best, but seeing this government of England making decisions for the others, and hearing its "arguments", excuses and accusations, it is enough to raise hell in the most calm chaps.
Cannot blame any man or woman over there to hate the EU if i see the yellow press and what is perpetrated on the people; it seems there are no media even trying to be neutral or true, from Express to The Sun to the Daily Mail, to whatever and the day videos.
Instead they try to arouse hate, using loaded and fighting words, lying unashamed and openly.. even russian lies and desinformation is welcomed if it helps to stir the pot and divert public opinion against the EU.

Also interesting to see Johnson boast over his personal [sic!] "victory" over the Corona virus, instead of bothering with "the war", for a change.

I had (being completely off my trolley of course) expected to see Johnson a bit more humble knowing the vaccine with which he "won" being invented in Germany, instead selling it as a personal or "national" win, while buying out the market using nationalist egoism and tricks. But then for him it's either a game or a war going on.

"Biden, Johnson to stress close ties, manage differences"

Article gets interesting further south :)

https://apnews.com/article/donald-tr...4bc43e37a2c862

Spoken like a true Brit :yeah: